My next build

[York-aholic]

Quick background: no repair training, strictly DIY on the job training. I’ve done three similar projects where I’ve turned around a top action horn and used King valves to make it front action:

1) York model 33 BBb, now resides with a pretty good guy in New Jersey. I was quite happy with it and I believe he is also.
2) York small (15”) bell Eb. A bit on the small side, sound wise, like a euphonium on steroids, but plays great.
3) Martin Renowned (medium) Eb. Not as big as a Monster Eb, bigger than #2 above. Plays really well, very happy with it. Both Eb tubas used Miraphone 183 Eb rotors for 5th valves.

I also put a York Master valve set onto a York 712 with a super worn 3v set. Thank you to the gentleman who sold me that YM set. I still love playing this tuba.


Ok, I recently saw this for sale and can’t get it out of my head. Can’t afford it. Can’t play CC to save my life. What to do?



I’ve had one of the rarely seen 18” bell York Monster Eb tubas for years. Great sound, not great low range (B and lower), interesting intonation. Let’s use the bell and bottom bow to make something similar. @Tubajug has done this with Holton big pieces and a King body.

I’m mocking it up for now with a King 2340 body but knowing this will be quite sharp would like to find a York model 33 (BBb) body as they were originally paired with a similar bell (19.5”) and bow and would go up about 1.5” farther toward the bell (for both the top bow and the smaller top bow). If I can’t find a York 33 body, the King will work, lengthening the 6th branch as @Tubajug had @Dan Schultz do. I will also likely add a Conn 52j or Miraphone 186 (too large?) rotor between the main slide and the dog leg which will further lengthen things.

Speaking of which, does anyone have a brass dogleg and 6th branch for a 124x/234x they’d like to trade for my same parts in silver? I’ll pay shipping both directions…

Okay, two possible valve sets to use. King 2340 or King 2350 and graft a 4th on (King #1 casing facing backwards from stock). I have a 1241 4v casing but don’t particularly want to re-tube the whole thing at the moment. Whichever valve cluster I choose, I need to do some additional fitting to the junction between the 3v cluster and the new 4th casing.

Like @bloke I’ll be using Olds top valve caps.I like the elegant simplicity of them.

Olds top caps, additional fitment of 4th casing (on the left) still needed

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However, for the bottom caps, I’m going full on decadent with 3 Reynolds sousaphone caps I had and an additional one sent by a nice guy in Ohio/Florida.Thank you! I love the fancy cross hatch knurling. They will also help the tuba project better!!!

Bottom caps from a Reynolds sousaphone +1

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And now to decide which cluster (2340 or 2350 sousaphone) to use. I’m leaning towards the 2340 as circuits 1, 2, 3 are built (will want shortening a bit) and actually have pretty good alignment. Using the Sousa set necessitates making #1 top pullable, redoing #3 wider to clear the future #4 casing and it’s a bit tight getting it set in the tubing behind/below it. It would also complicate the tubing between the bottom of #4 and the MTS and require a weird bend as the leadpipe exits its knuckle. But who knows…

So just mocked up, no dent work, just figuring out what do I have, what does it need…

W/2350 Sousa cluster w/future #4 just hanging on the end of 3

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W/ 2340, #4 just sitting there on the back of #3.

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Fair warning, this won’t likely be a fast moving project. Not much extra time around here. My wife had reconstructive foot surgery. I am now realizing and appreciating how much work she does around here, that I am trying to pick up the slack for.

[bloke]

I'll pay the postage in both ways if you will send those silver parts to me and I'll clean the silver off of them.

[York-aholic]

I'll pay the postage in both ways if you will send those silver parts to me and I'll clean the silver off of them.

Well, that’s kind of you but I can (and was planning to) do that but thought in case someone was in need of the silver versions…

I do appreciate it though.

[Tubajug]

That looks like a great project! I love my King/Holton combo. I almost sold it a year or two ago, just because we needed the money, but every time I pick it up, it just feels like "home." It's a great playing horn.

Good luck with yours!

By the way, I vote sousaphone cluster, just for the angle. That was going to be my next build, until I decided it was never going to happen and sold the stuff.

[arpthark]

I can spare the brass dogleg etc. to swap. It’s currently on a silver/brass frankenhorn so looks don’t matter too much for this one.

[York-aholic]

I can spare the brass dogleg etc. to swap. It’s currently on a silver/brass frankenhorn so looks don’t matter too much for this one.

Thank you for your very kind offer. Amazing what I find when I look through enough boxes…

Long lost dog leg and bow

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[bloke]

question for anyone:

Is Eastman's knock-off built just the same, whereby these parts could be ordered from them?

[York-aholic]

Well, sorry @Tubajug, I settled on using the 2340 valve set rather than the sousaphone cluster.

• 1st valve tubing already top-slide-able

• 3rd tubing already built and had enough room to hang the 4th casing on

• The knuckle that accepts the leadpipe (on the Sousa) points slightly down (directly below the lower 1st knuckle) which would mean needing to make a weird bend in the leadpipe.

4th casing is fitting and soldered on the back of #3. Swapped the silver 6th branch for brass but not the dogleg yet. Oh, and haven’t even thought about where to stick the fourth tubing yet. I fit a piece of tubing between the 5th and 6th branches, moving 6th up but need another try as it’s still pretty sharp and there’s a bit more room in the up direction. I’ll put some tubing between the 6th and dog leg to balance the other side. With a Conn 56j or Miraphone 186 rotor between the dogleg and outer slide tubing of MTS big side I think that will lower the pitch enough. Everything is literally held together with electrical tape and zip ties but it plays and in the few minutes I’ve tooted on it, it plays well. Once it’s all soldered together, strap ring removed, polished so as to be all one color, it’s going to be pretty nifty!

“Dark” yet “lively” sound. Punchier (not over blown) than I’m used to (if pushed (especially bottom of the staff F and below)) yet more “round” than my 186. Intonation seemed okay. Need to trim 1st and 3rd (expected) but considering the electrical tape covering many joints…

It’s 33 1/2” tall with an 18” bell. The King top bow is about 17” tall above the bottom bow’s ferrule. I believe the same distance on a York 33 is about 18.5” and 20” on a Holton top bow.

Never too early to see if anyone has a appropriately sized Cronkhite bag that they’d like to sell…

I’m pretty happy so far.

Look at those Yamaha buttons!

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[York-aholic]

I’ve been having trouble getting the valve cluster nested into the bugle so as not to stick out as much. (Warning: dedenting has not been done yet, still in the mock up stage)

Bell is to the right

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I guess the inner top bow defines where the upper #3 tubing has to sit (about 1/4” of clearance). And the upper #3 tubing kinda defines where the lower #3 tubing lives but looking at the picture, maybe things are angled a bit. I think that brace “rod” holding lower third up can be shortened a bit to bring the lower 3 slide area down towards the bugle.

Anyway, while contemplating all of this, I just pulled out a Holton BBb bugle (same or similar to the one Bloke used on for his nearly square Holton BBb) to compare with the King 2340 bugle I’m tentatively using for this. <— now that’s a long sentence, even for me.

I wanted to see if the Holton bugle offered Bloke some sort of advantage in getting the valve cluster deeper into the bugle. I don’t see an advantage. That inner upper bow still puts upper 3 tubing in the same spot. Oh well. I’ll stare at it some more.

However, I thought perhaps someone might be interested to see the two bugles side by side (King bows on the left, Holton (silver) on the right). My York 18” Monster Eb bell is (obviously) an inch smaller than Bloke’s but must be about an inch and a half taller as my horn is 33.5” to his 32”.

Sorta looking at the way Bloke started his #4 tubing headed upwards (silver piece) but undecided…

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Ingredients: York bell and bottom bow, King bugle and valves, Conn 56j rotor, Olds top valve caps, Reynolds bottom caps, will likely use Holton 340 tubing and crooks for 5th valve tubing.

The All American mashup tuba!

Oh wait, the finger buttons are Yamaha. I guess I could use new style King/Conn buttons but those are a bit big for my eye and I like the real, genuine fake MOP of these. I sprung for the real pearls on my silver Martin Eb project. Maybe I’ll switch these over at some point but…

[York-aholic]

There: a piece of Holton 340 crook and ferrule. I’m considering swapping the Yamaha finger buttons for Kanstul buttons. I guess I’m just missing Martin and Buescher. I might have a Martin thumb ring around here somewhere.

If so, it will be The All American Tuba. I’ll need someone to come up with a fancy pattern/logo to have engraved on the bell !

Conn 56j rotor w/ half a Holton crook

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[LargeTuba]

Looks cool. Cool seeing your process.