Brass Band Basses

[Thattubaguy345]

What are everyone's favorite brass band tubas, both in terms of listening to and for playing in?

[arpthark]

Any old vintage Besson 3+1 compensator (15”/17” bell for the Eb and BBb, respectively). Love the Ebs especially and the BBbs are great too.

[andycat]

Personally, we find the Yamaha Neo best of the currently made, for both EEb and BBb. Certainly the most consistent and well made.

[donn]

brass band

British Brass Band?

[2nd tenor]

What are everyone's favorite brass band tubas, both in terms of listening to and for playing in?

H’mm as a Tuba player in a Brass Band I’d say you’re asking a nearly impossible to properly answer question. The Bass section in a Brass Band is arguably centred on the Eb and BBb Tubas, but the Bass Trombone and Euphonium too are heavily involved in the ‘bass sound’. The Euphonium is the Tenor Tuba and imho a wonderful instrument to listen to, sadly I haven’t got what it takes to deliver the music asked of the Euphoniums and content myself with being part of a reasonably good support act.

Playing an Eb and a BBb Tuba has overlapping but slightly different demands peculiar to each. The Eb’s are a little easier to physically manage but usually have the musically tricky bits given to them rather than the BBb’s. Both pitches of Tuba give joy, I think the Eb more sonorous but my section mate on BBb loves the pedal notes it produces. I’ve played and enjoyed both BBb and Eb Tubas, the Eb suits me better but I’d happily play BBb again. The OP will find his preferences, but see my last paragraph below.

Here in the UK the Besson and Yamaha four valve compensating Tubas are pretty much the only ones I ever see, the Yamahas might be slightly better built but some say that they lack ‘soul’. I have a Besson and think it grand, but I’d likely say similar of a Yamaha. A friend brought a Wessex to rehearsal, my recollection is that it was OK but not up to what I was used to. I’ve never tried the Packer copy 3 + 1 compensator but the reports of it are good, the Chinese origin instruments vary.

Will three and four valve non-comp instruments work in a brass band? That all depends on the Band, the Tuba and the player. I’ve produced a lot of good music on my small Besson three valve non-comp Eb Tuba, and heard even better produced by others on similar. I asked a music teacher about three valves Tubas available in the UK, the answer was Besson and Yamaha will be OK but the rest are either unknown or not worth having, not all Tubas are equal. Ultimately the Conductor will want a bass section that blends, to get a section that blends it’s pretty much necessary for them to play much the same instruments and here that’s usually same series 3 + 1 compensating valve Bessons.

Big bell or slightly smaller? I’ve a 19” bell but would prefer the more focussed sound of a slightly smaller one. Does it matter what I think? Not really, play what you’ve got and keep the conductor happy.

Ultimately it’s a case of use what you have to the best of your ability and try not to waste too much time and effort seeking perfection, sometimes improvements are possible but other than that it’s what you do with what you’ve got that matters. Enjoy, and decide to find enjoyment in what you’ve either got or can easily have.

[Thattubaguy345]

brass band

British Brass Band?

Yes, British-style brass band with parts for Eb and BBb tubas.

[Thattubaguy345]

What are everyone's favorite brass band tubas, both in terms of listening to and for playing in?

Here in the UK the Besson and Yamaha four valve compensating Tubas are pretty much the only ones I ever see, the Yamahas might be slightly better built but some say that they lack ‘soul’. I have a Besson and think it grand, but I’d likely say similar of a Yamaha. A friend brought a Wessex to rehearsal, my recollection is that it was OK but not up to what I was used to. I’ve never tried the Packer copy 3 + 1 compensator but the reports of it are good, the Chinese origin instruments vary.

Will three and four valve non-comp instruments work in a brass band? That all depends on the Band, the Tuba and the player. I’ve produced a lot of good music on my small Besson three valve non-comp Eb Tuba, and heard even better produced by others on similar. I asked a music teacher about three valves Tubas available in the UK, the answer was Besson and Yamaha will be OK but the rest are either unknown or not worth having, not all Tubas are equal. Ultimately the Conductor will want a bass section that blends, to get a section that blends it’s pretty much necessary for them to play much the same instruments and here that’s usually same series 3 + 1 compensating valve Bessons.

Thanks. I play in a brass band in the US and only one of us has a compensating Eb but we've been playing non matching but really big horns for the BBb part, generally 6/4 CCs and BBbs with pretty decent results, though playing C tuba in brass band does feel wrong. I'd like to try having everyone play matching instruments but am very curious as to possibilities with instruments beyond the traditional. In terms of soul, I find old York tubas hard to beat but it's also not easy to outfit a whole section with practical Yorks. I'm also a big fan of Alexanders but have a hard time imagining what a matching section of those would really be like.

It's great fun to play in such a band regardless of the exact instruments, I'm just asking out of general interest.

[anadmai]

I’ve never tried the Packer copy 3 + 1 compensator but the reports of it are good, the Chinese origin instruments vary.

As someone who plays a Chinese Clone, they are pretty damn good instruments. My Dillon 981S produces a beautiful sound. I would image the Packer 374 is probably as good or even better. I'd love a 15" Besson or Imperial, but a Girl can only dream.

Being new to the world of Eb Bass, I can tell you it's such a beautiful instrument. I haven't had this much fun in years.

[Thattubaguy345]

Personally, we find the Yamaha Neo best of the currently made, for both EEb and BBb. Certainly the most consistent and well made.

Thanks, when you say we do you mean that your whole section is outfitted with matching Yamahas? Is it standard for high level competition bands in the UK to match like this?

[Thattubaguy345]

I’ve never tried the Packer copy 3 + 1 compensator but the reports of it are good, the Chinese origin instruments vary.

As someone who plays a Chinese Clone, they are pretty damn good instruments. My Dillon 981S produces a beautiful sound. I would image the Packer 374 is probably as good or even better. I'd love a 15" Besson or Imperial, but a Girl can only dream.

Being new to the world of Eb Bass, I can tell you it's such a beautiful instrument. I haven't had this much fun in years.

It really is fun, and there's nothing inherently wrong with a horn of any origin.

[TubaBee]

Here in Belgium and the Netherlands, you see that about 90% of the brass band bass sections consist of Besson EEb and BBb tubas. Various professional tuba players also play in a brass band as a hobby and for the musical challenge, especially in the higher divisions. I notice that they then also swap their Adams, Melton, B&S, or Miraphone tubas for the traditional 3+1 Bessons. It also seems easier to blend the sound when using a matching set of instruments. For the EEb bass, this is mainly the 981 Sovereign. For the BBb bass, I still see many older models in use, such as the 992, the first-generation 994, or the Imperial/New Standard with the 19-inch bell.

For me personally:
981 Besson Sovereign EEb (2010, German made). A fantastic instrument—never had any valve issues, spot-on intonation, and a true all-rounder that you can use in virtually any ensemble or situation.

994 Sovereign BBb (1990, generation 1 tall model). This one requires hard work to make it sound warm and round. I really need to practice a lot on it, but when I do, it gives a lot back; otherwise, it can be a nightmare. Intonation-wise it is good, although I once had the 4th valve tubing extended.

Since a few months, I have also been able to acquire a Boosey & Hawkes Imperial (1979), 4-valve BBb, with the 17 inch bell. This instrument has character, perfect intonation, a slightly more compact sound compared to the 994, and it is really heavy. So far it hasn’t been taken out of the house yet, but I will soon bring it to rehearsal. I’m curious to see how it blends with the other basses and whether it works well in a modern brass band setup.

In the past, I owned a brand-new 994 Sovereign (fat model) from 2000, and this instrument was a nightmare. The intonation was all over the place, and the silver plating started to peel off.

[anadmai]

Personally, we find the Yamaha Neo best of the currently made, for both EEb and BBb. Certainly the most consistent and well made.

Thanks, when you say we do you mean that your whole section is outfitted with matching Yamahas? Is it standard for high level competition bands in the UK to match like this?

Back in the previous century, I played in a top band in New York and the basses were all Sovereigns. Actually the entire band, sans trombones were Sovereigns. I played a Sovereign 955 baritone.

I think it's better when the entire section has similar instruments. It matches the tonal quality across the players.

And it looks better.. Nothing more visually frustrating than a bass section with some facing the right way and the others facing the left (the wrong way).

[andycat]

Personally, we find the Yamaha Neo best of the currently made, for both EEb and BBb. Certainly the most consistent and well made.

Thanks, when you say we do you mean that your whole section is outfitted with matching Yamahas? Is it standard for high level competition bands in the UK to match like this?

We currently have 2 BBb and 1 EEb Neo, the other is a Sovereign, but we'd like another Neo.
Used to be everyone on Besson/Boosey, but now there's a mix and match. A lot more Yamaha than there ever was, bass wise. The BBb especially is a step up, both ergonomically and in tuning.

[anadmai]

[
We currently have 2 BBb and 1 EEb Neo, the other is a Sovereign, but we'd like another Neo.
Used to be everyone on Besson/Boosey, but now there's a mix and match. A lot more Yamaha than there ever was, bass wise. The BBb especially is a step up, both ergonomically and in tuning.

What's better (in your opinion)... A Yamaha from now or a Besson/B&H from the 80s.

[Wilco]

We have one Melton 2165 in the section, and it certainly brings an extra special sound to the band. The tuba section strives for clarity, something which is a challenge on the large compensators IMHO.

[dp]

One year I was unable to make the summer chamber music workshop in Northern California, and my coach suggested I attend a British Brass Band Workshop sponsored by Yamaha and hosted by Billy Robinson at Skyline College in San Bruno CA. I was much younger, and had only resumed playing in the past 3-4 years. Billy gave me a 321 4 valve Eflat tuba to use (c/o of Yamaha) and I LOVED IT. I was not (and likely never will be much of) a sight-reader, let alone adept at playing horns of different keys nor reading music written in various ways. But that experience and the reading and playing, for me seemed so immediately natural, to this day I have no idea why I didn't buy the horn from Yamaha at the end of the week (1100 dollars in 1985 currency) and kept it up with whatever brass band there was in the yay area that'd have me. Now, about the horn, today and not going just on a 40-some-odd-year memory, I would say I can't imagine that model horn limiting ANY brass band player in contributing to the ensemble. I do NOT know if that particular model (or many other models in the Yamaha catalog) are being outsourced away from Japan now or if the 321 is even being made. But I liked it. A lot. And I am used to being sniffed at by pasty-munching brass band equipment snobs. So there. I'd probably buy one for a go at brass band playing again if the line to get into the (4? 5?) brass bands in Colorado wasn't seven dozen players long already. Shoulda jumped at the chance at RMBW 20 years ago... -30-

[Thattubaguy345]

We have one Melton 2165 in the section, and it certainly brings an extra special sound to the band. The tuba section strives for clarity, something which is a challenge on the large compensators IMHO.

I generally feel that big horns like that were made for these parts, even if it is less uniform.

[Sousaswag]

Here’s the thing:

In the US, unless that particular brass band is really trying to be as traditional as possible, you generally won’t find most players on 3+1 tubas here. You’ll also find a lot of CC and F tubas in those sections. In the several I’ve seen in my area or played with, the tubas used were these:

Group one - Besson 993, 6/4 franken-Martin, Besson 982, Willson 3200RZ (this is before I got that 2141)

Group two - Willson 3400C x2, Yamaha 822, Willson 3100, Kanstul 5/4, MW 2165

Group three - MW 2141, Besson 983, JP 3+1, Besson 994, Nirschl 6/4

I don’t know how many brass bands can require their tuba players to play on 3+1 instruments unless they (the band) supply them, which is why we see such a big variety of instruments over here.

As far as blend is concerned, sure, a section of 3+1 instruments will sound the most similar, but I’m still going to sound like “me” on one of those. I still have to blend with the other guys regardless of what I’m playing, you know?

[Thattubaguy345]

As far as blend is concerned, sure, a section of 3+1 instruments will sound the most similar, but I’m still going to sound like “me” on one of those. I still have to blend with the other guys regardless of what I’m playing, you know?

Naturally there's only so much that instruments help with for blending. With that said, what's your favorite horn to play in a brass band on? Like many things, there is a certain appeal of the tradition and uniformity of paired sets but if you could build a section in the US would you want to provide matching horns or have people just play their own instruments which they are accustomed to (or even if there were an Eb/BBb requirement).

[Thattubaguy345]

Here in Belgium and the Netherlands, you see that about 90% of the brass band bass sections consist of Besson EEb and BBb tubas. Various professional tuba players also play in a brass band as a hobby and for the musical challenge, especially in the higher divisions. I notice that they then also swap their Adams, Melton, B&S, or Miraphone tubas for the traditional 3+1 Bessons. It also seems easier to blend the sound when using a matching set of instruments. For the EEb bass, this is mainly the 981 Sovereign. For the BBb bass, I still see many older models in use, such as the 992, the first-generation 994, or the Imperial/New Standard with the 19-inch bell.

For me personally:
981 Besson Sovereign EEb (2010, German made). A fantastic instrument—never had any valve issues, spot-on intonation, and a true all-rounder that you can use in virtually any ensemble or situation.

994 Sovereign BBb (1990, generation 1 tall model). This one requires hard work to make it sound warm and round. I really need to practice a lot on it, but when I do, it gives a lot back; otherwise, it can be a nightmare. Intonation-wise it is good, although I once had the 4th valve tubing extended.

Since a few months, I have also been able to acquire a Boosey & Hawkes Imperial (1979), 4-valve BBb, with the 17 inch bell. This instrument has character, perfect intonation, a slightly more compact sound compared to the 994, and it is really heavy. So far it hasn’t been taken out of the house yet, but I will soon bring it to rehearsal. I’m curious to see how it blends with the other basses and whether it works well in a modern brass band setup.

In the past, I owned a brand-new 994 Sovereign (fat model) from 2000, and this instrument was a nightmare. The intonation was all over the place, and the silver plating started to peel off.

Thanks. It makes sense that the competitive culture of brass bands in Europe has encouraged this kind of traditional format. I wonder what the cause of that discrepancy between the older and newer 994s is.