Pasadena

[bloke]

Roughly half of those I saw assembled their necks/bits correctly, and rested their instruments on their left shoulders - rather than on their cervical vertebrae.

As all of the sousaphones that I've personally owned would be considered "antiques" and all of them held the upper mouthpipes in place securely, why (suspecting these are all brand-new instruments which - being new - should be able to support the upper mouthpipes securely) are all of these players holding onto their instruments' upper mouthpipes? (If it's to help keep the mouthpieces centered on their embouchures, putting the left arm around the 2nd and 3rd branches offers considerably more torque.)

teachers...presumably playing the "major instrument" they studied in college:

[tadawson]

Yeah, in all the years I played/marched a Sousaphone, I don't ever recall holding the leadpipe like that. I know that bad weather was possible in CA, so short of it being very windy, I've got nothing . . . .

[prodigal]

That looks really uncomfortable. Might as well March with a recording bell King! (Wait, I did that too...

[York-aholic]

Yep, definitely raining here (about an hour and change from Pasadena).

[russiantuba]

To be honest, I didn’t know this until a few years back. I got on a section I was coaching about consistent hand placement for visuals, and one of the marching aficionados who did DCI mentioned that you aren’t supposed to rest your hands on the necks.

When I was in high school, the ports for the necks on the King sousaphones we had didn’t fit and were abused, so we had to hold the necks. We got 2 new sousaphones my senior year and to keep it consistent, we rested our hands on there.

In undergrad, same issue—the mouthpipe would swivel if not held.

[pjv]

Whenever I play I don’t hold the mpc
unless
I’m walking around (funerals and such) then I might choose to do this to protect my chops from an unexpected jolt.

[bloke]

To be honest, I didn’t know this until a few years back. I got on a section I was coaching about consistent hand placement for visuals, and one of the marching aficionados who did DCI mentioned that you aren’t supposed to rest your hands on the necks.

When I was in high school, the ports for the necks on the King sousaphones we had didn’t fit and were abused, so we had to hold the necks. We got 2 new sousaphones my senior year and to keep it consistent, we rested our hands on there.

In undergrad, same issue—the mouthpipe would swivel if not held.

My favorite sousaphone bits are those with tension screws. As much as I like King sousaphones, their tuning bits are the worst. If they've been the least bit damaged, they're not going to hold tight and they're going to leak. For my personal use, I have aligned the number one and number two bits just the way I wanted them, and pounded them together with a hard plastic mallet, and I've even been known to pound the pair of bits into the neck.

Most people would worry about getting them back out, but why do I need to get them back out? (And I still can if I need to.)

With new tuning bits, it helps a lot to sand the lacquer off of the male connecting parts.

[iiipopes]

Two comments:
1) When I was in marching band, I did hold onto the neck and bits and mouthpiece on the "run-in" so they wouldn't drop out of the horn. Then I played conventionally.
2) Now that I have the upper loop of the 1st valve circuit converted to a moveable slide for outdoor stationary concerts, there is no need to hold onto the neck/bits/mouthpiece once they are secured properly.
Epilogue: keep an eye on the setscrew for the neck receiver, as well as the bits bloke references. If the threads are worn, or if the collar of the set screw is not of the proper taper to secure against the neck, then there will be nothing to secure the neck in the receiver, and it will wobble. I recently went through three, yes, three different set screws and ended up using a small washer between the setscrew flange and the leadpipe receiver seat in order for there to be the proper surface interface to secure the neck in the receiver.

[catgrowlB]

On any sousa I play, I put my left hand on the neck to stabilize it. Doesn't matter how 'tight' everything is fit together -- the neck, bits and mouthpiece are still prone to 'wobble' while playing/marching, and need to be stabilized. Does your mouthpiece and mouthpipe 'wobble' on your tuba sitting in your lap while playing? No, it's completely stable.

As for the sousa photo here, the sousas' bells are -- imo --canted too much forward with the players bodies; not enough to the side. The bell rim should be positioned closer to the upper branch that drapes over the shoulder.
For bits, I'd say what best fits your playing position for comfort and playability.

[Marty2021]

I know these
sousaphone players. The lady is over 68 years old and the guy on the left is over 40, They are are having a great deal of fun and spent a great deal of money to enjoy the moment.. How about giving them a break!! The fact they marched over 5 plus miles in the rain!They deserve a break from the negativity.

[bloke]

I know these
sousaphone players. The lady is over 68 years old and the guy on the left is over 40, They are are having a great deal of fun and spent a great deal of money to enjoy the moment.. How about giving them a break!! The fact they marched over 5 plus miles in the rain!They deserve a break from the negativity.

Let me make it a bit more personal: about my experiences, and about today's students.
I carried a sousaphone like that for several years as a schoolboy - ages 12 through 20.
Due to ignorance, no one ever showed me the right way to do it.
It messed up my neck. It's impossible for me to imagine that I'm the only one.

I took a gig several years ago at the annual MLB convention and All-Star game. I marched around the convention hall all day for 4 days with a sousaphone. It was actually a very tough gig, but it was interesting and it paid well. By then, I knew better - in regards to how to hold a sousaphone, and the consequences of holding it incorrectly. The first day and a half that soft muscle - which spans the left shoulder - hurt pretty badly, but I kept holding the sousaphone correctly. For the last two days, it was painless. More importantly, after I got home I was NOT constantly cracking my neck in order to try to give myself some relief.

The damage done to neck vertebrae by resting a sousaphone sideways on them is just as much a sports injury as other sports injuries.

I'm not interested in personalities, and frankly I would have preferred that no one who read this post knows any of the people in the picture. I'm certainly not interested in their individual identities. I'm interested in the thousands and thousands of additional band directors who never teach their students how to hold a sousaphone to avoid injury, because they're never taught it themselves, including those who play tuba themselves.

[bloke]

As a repair person - "contras" are sort of falling out of favor in this part of the country and sousaphones are falling back into favor, but several schools are still stuck with complete sets of them, and they don't have the money to replace them with sousaphones, so they continue to use them. I'm having to repair torn up contras all the time because part of the deal with them is to spin them - even though (estimate) they weigh 25 lbs. and cost $10,000.

Little girls are encouraged to play the tuba in fifth grade beginner band, and then they end up in the high school band and are expected to be able to spin a contra when they themselves only weigh a hundred pounds or so. "Come on Cheryl; you're doing it out of rhythm. You need to spin your giant expensive tuba faster!" Something tells me (no, I'm not an orthopedic surgeon) that's not particularly good for a 15-year-old small-boned 85 - 100 lb growing body either.

When those things get torn to smithereens (when they're dropped during spinning accidents ... Yeah almost always dropped by big boys), the top bows are so very close to the bell flairs that there's really no way that ,(even I with my tricks) can repair the top bows and bells without removing the bells from the instruments. Of course, 100% of them are silver plated, so the silver finish - after the bell is removed five or six times over a number of years - ends up looking pretty interesting.

[Beervangelist]

It seems like there's an underlying or overlooked sentiment that it was perceived these players weren't holding their horns in an ergonomic or "suggested" manner. I'm curious about what that "right way" is? I feel like I have decent posture and good physical comfort while wearing a heavy horn (King Giant, 1270, 28" Bell).

I also end up with my hand on the lead pipe a fair amount of the time. It doesn't feel locked into it, or that it's off-base; it sort of feels like the equivalent of a thumb rest on a bass, I guess. I just end up there, and can adjust the bits as needed. It's not always there, but this post gave me some thoughts...


Anyone care to articulate the fundamentals of what good position actually is?

[bloke]

The neck and tuning bits should properly approach a player's mouth from the players left, and not from the player's right.

The instrument should rest on the soft part of the left shoulder on the muscle which extends over the clavicle, but the sousaphone should not additionally rest on the neck vertebrae. Rather, the sousaphone should rest on the person from front to back, rather than from left to right. This not only looks much better, but prevents the player - over the years of being in marching bands - from damaging their neck vertebrae. Additionally, it places the sousaphone bell - when facing forward - where it should be (which is not anywhere near a player's forehead. This means that a sousaphonist can wear a regular band hat or even a shako (admittedly, neither currently in style) without either one having any chance of bumping into the bell of the sousaphone.

That muscle referred to above will be sore for two or three days, but will strengthen and the soreness will disappear. If it hurts a player continuously (even after a handful of days) to hold and march with a sousaphone, they should probably play something else outdoors, but compensating by resting the instrument on their vertebrae should never be a workaround.

As far as the left hand, it should probably either be down by the players side or holding on to the large part of the instrument simply to steady it a bit. Tuning bits should be well secured via friction and the likelihood for this is increased by avoiding dropping them on the ground and denting them as well as by sanding the exteriors of the insertion portions, along with exerting enough force to secure them properly. Even so, some people choose lightweight plastic mouthpieces to further increase the chances of tuning bits holding their friction fit. Even though the brands of sousaphones I have mostly used don't feature this, I prefer tuning bits with tension screws built into them.

[Beervangelist]

Thanks. That helps clarify what I was gleaning from earlier posts. It makes sense, and I think by & large it’s what I’m doing with the exception being that I make contact with my lead pipe fairly often. I’ll give that some observation & attention and make sure that hand is free for beer holding, peace signs and flipping the bird to the man. (Or the occasional 2nd slide adjustment)

[bloke]

Thanks. That helps clarify what I was gleaning from earlier posts. It makes sense, and I think by & large it’s what I’m doing with the exception being that I make contact with my neck fairly often. I’ll give that some observation & attention and make sure that hand is free for beer holding, peace signs and flipping the bird to the man. (Or the occasional 2nd slide adjustment)

If you have access to a large mirror, make an effort to hold the large circle front to back in relation to your body instead of diagonal (getting it off your neck).
Whether you are short, tall, fat, skinny, ugly, or handsome, the sousaphone is going to look better on you resting front to back.

[Thattubaguy345]

Carrying a sousaphone around has never been comfortable for me, but I fare much better with a helicon. That's what we should make this thread about: decent helicons.

[bloke]

Carrying a sousaphone around has never been comfortable for me, but I fare much better with a helicon. That's what we should make this thread about: decent helicons.

I like ice cream better than either one of those. Let's change the subject to ice cream.

[Beervangelist]

So, I took some more notice at a recent gig, and I'm comfortable with my horn positioning. The first bit out of the gooseneck definitely tends to drop down, so I find I keep my finger or hand on the mouthpiece or bit -- fairly often.

There was some mention of sanding/scoring to provide more friction, so I'm a little curious about whether that next step is in my future.

It's an old horn with old bits, so it's not surprising, but I hadn't thought about addressing it, until I started paying more attention to it from this convo.

We'll see - advice welcome!