Newer/currently-made sousaphones❕️

[catgrowlB]

There are a number of currently made sousas, including three 4-valve sousas -- one each from Jupiter, Conn, and King. I believe the King is the latest, and looks nothing like the standard model 2350. I'm thinking it is most likely made in Asia, but do not know for sure.

Has anyone here played any of these 4 valvers? I'm just curious; especially about the newer King.

There are also three fiberglass sousas -- one each from Yamaha, Eastman and Jupiter.


https://www.musicarts.com/sousaphones

[bloke]

I suspect the King four valve is the Jinbao-made 20K-sized thing that's been available for sale for years.

The three valve American King sousaphones are a lot like they've been for a long time, but they have chopped a couple of the inner branches into sausages in order to put these very strange looking adjustable and bulky steel braces on either end of the valve section.

For for quite a few years, I owned a fiberglass Conn 36K (medium-large body made in Elkhart) which I paired with a 4-valve valve section off of a 1920s 40K. If you're shopping for a 4-valve sousaphone either for yourself or for a marching band, I would encourage you to not waste your money and to forget about it. Sousaphone false tones work so well that the 4th valve doesn't do anything for the low range, and actually only one double-low octave pitch is close to In tune (as we all know), and that's the pitch which uses valves two three and four. A non-compensating 4th valve renders C and F in tune a little bit better, but B and E are still very sharp.

4 valve sousaphones feature quite a few small braces to support all of that extra tubing. These braces tend to break or come unsoldered quite often if such instruments are student-used, and a fourth valve on any tuba adds a tremendous amount of extra weight. It's not uncommon for a 3/4 size 4 valve tuba to weigh more than a 3 valve full size tuba... and sousaphones are already heavy enough so as most students - and even most adults - support them incorrectly by turning them sideways and having their neck vertebrae support a lot of the weight - which is a very unhealthy thing to do.

For myself, I own one of the vintage (1970's) thin-wall fiberglass King sousaphones and found one with good valves. King no longer makes fiberglass sousaphones, but - were I to outfit a high school band where I was the director (and I would do so many things differently from so many band directors, because I'm such a weirdo) I would find some of the thick fiberglass (yes they are heavier, but much more crack resistant) sousaphones they were making towards the end of production, check them over, repair whatever needed repairing, probably take them to an auto body shop to have them painted with some of that super fine metal fleck paint that nearly looks like real silver, and then - after adding well aligned upper number one circuit slides and shortening circuits 1 and 3 - have the valve sections chrome (not silver) plated.

If you're shopping for yourself, would really like to have a four valve sousaphone (in spite of the fact that the fourth valve doesn't do much for sousaphone), and would like a big fat one, I'm sure you can find that Jinbao instrument for a lot less without "King" engraved on it. If you prefer new, I might suggest talking to @UncleBeer.

Completely noticing that your topic is "newer currently made", I would avoid the (discontinued) Dynasty 4 valve instruments, even if you encounter one or some that are in just about new condition. The nickel plating on the valves is only "appearance thick", and they wear down to the brass (not nickel brass) base metal quickly. Additionally, the brace tubing is hollow - rather than solid - and the brace feet are made of sheet brass which is just too thin - similar to the problem with Jupiter. Finally, if you purchase the silver plated version of these Brazil made instruments, you'll discover that the silver is plated over nickel plating, which is a shortcut method and doesn't bond very well.

[iiipopes]

I suspect the King four valve is the Jinbao-made 20K-sized thing that's been available for sale for years.

The three valve American King sousaphones are a lot like they've been for a long time, but they have chopped a couple of the inner branches into sausages in order to put these very strange looking adjustable and bulky steel braces on either end of the valve section.

For for quite a few years, I owned a fiberglass Conn 36K (medium-large body made in Elkhart) which I paired with a 4-valve valve section off of a 1920s 40K. If you're shopping for a 4-valve sousaphone either for yourself or for a marching band, I would encourage you to not waste your money and to forget about it. Sousaphone false tones work so well that the 4th valve doesn't do anything for the low range, and actually only one double-low octave pitch is close to In tune (as we all know), and that's the pitch which uses valves two three and four. A non-compensating 4th valve renders C and F in tune a little bit better, but B and E are still very sharp.

4 valve sousaphones feature quite a few small braces to support all of that extra tubing. These braces tend to break or come unsoldered quite often if such instruments are student-used, and a fourth valve on any tuba adds a tremendous amount of extra weight. It's not uncommon for a 3/4 size 4 valve tuba to weigh more than a 3 valve full size tuba... and sousaphones are already heavy enough so as most students - and even most adults - support them incorrectly by turning them sideways and having their neck vertebrae support a lot of the weight - which is a very unhealthy thing to do.

For myself, I own one of the vintage (1970's) thin-wall fiberglass King sousaphones and found one with good valves. King no longer makes fiberglass sousaphones, but - were I to outfit a high school band where I was the director (and I would do so many things differently from so many band directors, because I'm such a weirdo) I would find some of the thick fiberglass (yes they are heavier, but much more crack resistant) sousaphones they were making towards the end of production, check them over, repair whatever needed repairing, probably take them to an auto body shop to have them painted with some of that super fine metal fleck paint that nearly looks like real silver, and then - after adding well aligned upper number one circuit slides and shortening circuits 1 and 3 - have the valve sections chrome (not silver) plated.

If you're shopping for yourself, would really like to have a four valve sousaphone (in spite of the fact that the fourth valve doesn't do much for sousaphone), and would like a big fat one, I'm sure you can find that Jinbao instrument for a lot less without "King" engraved on it. If you prefer new, I might suggest talking to @UncleBeer.

Completely noticing that your topic is "newer currently made", I would avoid the (discontinued) Dynasty 4 valve instruments, even if you encounter one or some that are in just about new condition. The nickel plating on the valves is only "appearance thick", and they wear down to the brass (not nickel brass) base metal quickly. Additionally, the brace tubing is hollow - rather than solid - and the brace feet are made of sheet brass which is just too thin - similar to the problem with Jupiter. Finally, if you purchase the silver plated version of these Brazil made instruments, you'll discover that the silver is plated over nickel plating, which is a shortcut method and doesn't bond very well.

What bloke said. I absolutely agree, currently owning a rebuilt "real" (mid-60-s) 36K, possessing on semi-permanent loan a Pan-Am with a Cavalier bell that has the King bore size (.687), and a couple decades ago having had the use of a 38K (as well as owning or having the use of many others along the way which could be its own thread): the privilege tones are superb, all the way from privilege Eb all the way down to true pedal BBb. No need for a 4th valve. The historical purpose of 4-valve souzys, as the 40K, were to sit on a stand and be played indoors as the bass voice for trad-jazz dance hall bands, before electrification of bass string instruments. I prefer the Conn instruments because I don't need the projection that comes with a King; I prefer the slightly larger tone that comes with the .734 bore; and the upper loop of the 1st valve on Conn instruments sits conveniently at the left hand so it can be made into a moveable slide to pull for 1+3 C and low F and push for 2nd space C. Oh - and Wessex makes a 4-valve Eb souzy, but with all the weight of the 4th valve circuit, no advantage in weight is to be gained, and there are more intonation issues trying to play the low register on a smaller instrument. Wessex also offer a 'glass souzy, probably a re-branded Jin Bao also. I am jaded, but I find all the currently made souzys to be inferior.

[opus37]

In general I agree that a 3 valve instrument is adequate. The question that needs to be answered first is what are you planning on using the Sousaphone for. If you are marching down the street and playing a Bb horn, then 3 valves are adequate. If you are playing an Eb, especially if you are playing outside, a 4 valve horn should be considered. I play in a concert band with an Eb helicon. For old time marches and polkas 3 valves are good enough. For concert pieces, jazz and most anything else, I find 4 valves are needed. Other considerations are bore size of the horn, cost, weight, size of your group, does the horn feel comfortable to play and if you are playing solo or with a group of sousas. 4 valve horns are heavier and more expensive, but sometimes that's worth it. Your question, on the surface is simple, but there are a lot of things to consider when choosing a horn.

[catgrowlB]

I'd like to see more use of sousaphones in music. I've always enjoyed playing and listening to them. But I feel there are still ppl (even here) who sorta have a bias against them. I'd just tell them to quit blatting on them, and quit listening to bad/blatty schools and individuals and groups on them, and seek out good groups and players on them. Just because they are sousaphones does not mean you have to blat everything and play sloppy on them

As for music on sousa, it would be nice to have more groups receptive to it -- more concert bands and commercial groups using them. Even (yup) orchestras using them every once in a while, at least for certain pieces. The various dixieland and New Orleans groups using them are ok, I guess, but musically/sonically very boring to me.

Played well, sousaphones can sound great in many groups. They are arguably more 'honest' than upright bell tubas because you hear everything on sousaphones, including every little articulation and pitch flaw.

If I were to get an Eb sousa, I'd definitely get a 4 valver. I'm fine with the 3v BBb sousas as they play very well with great false tones. But it would be nice to have a trigger for the 2nd slide for low (valves 123) B natural, and E natural. Low C and F are fine for me with my 3rd set out a little (1&3).

[bloke]

Sousaphones could be tricked out.
I could conceive of a 5 valve king BB-flat sousaphone with a retreat to 1960s build quality and an upper #1 slide that works nicely (as King sousaphones offer the best intonation out of the box.)

Some remember my helicon: