Brass Band Basses

[iiipopes]

Besson, Besson, Besson! Actually, at least in the UK, and at least until recently, you would not be allowed to compete if you played anything other than a Besson. Add to that the Wick 1 is the default mouthpiece to give the deep, broad, organ-like tone that is the standard of modern brass band tonality.

At the root of this view (^^) lies the competitive nature of most British Brass Bands the vast majority of which enter musical competitions (contests) with a hunger to win them. The players of each band have to perform to the best of their ability and if that best isn’t deemed good enough then their band might ‘loose’ them - brutal, but it happens. After that comes the quality of instruments, poor instruments hold a band back and better ones help it forwards. Every little improvement matters in contests that can be won or lost by just a point or two - fine judgements are made.

Things move one. At one time Besson made the best instruments, you’d be daft to play anything else ‘cause it could cost you a winning result. With care brass instruments last a long time (many decades), and tubas are darned expensive hence Bessons Tubas will likely remain in a Band for a long time. If a band had funds to buy modern instruments that were better than their Bessons then they’d likely do it and enjoy the marginal advantage that they gave. Whether other manufacturers produce better instruments than Besson is open to debate, with respect to Tubas there won’t be much in it but my suspicion is that some other manufacturers do offer better. That said another option is to have a midlife instrument stripped, restored and carefully rebuilt by a top class brass specialist company, such instruments can come back playing better than they did when first sold. That’s what one local contesting band did and the instrument is now ‘something special’.

I’m a strong believer in it’s what you do with what you’ve got that matters, but when the other guy (the competition) plays as good as you do then what instrument you play can tip the scales in either your favour or his favour. Everything and anything that’ll give you a competitive edge matters, even if it means letting your Besson go in favour of (say) a Yamaha.

I tend to agree with you. I also know that regulations and traditions are slow to change, especially in the realm of British Brass bands.

[bloke]

mouthpieces:

I tend to wonder (??) if the practice of American cornetists using cup mouthpieces on their cornets can be traced back to the early jazz era, wereby such mouthpieces put out a more brash and louder type of sound than a classic cornet funnel cup mouthpiece.

I was just reading something on this not too long ago .. but I'll be damned if I can actually remember where.

The basic premise was at the right at the time of the early jazz scene you basically had Late 19th century European style short cornets with for cookie cutter V cup mouthpieces with a soft responsive tone. They sounded great in concert halls where people were sitting quietly to listen to music but didn't project well enough to be clearly heard in bars and dance halls where there was a lot of conversation and background noise. On the other hand you had peashooter trumpets which could peel the paint off the walls with a laser like sound beam but sounded brash... So the trumpet became more cornet like leading to the French Besson design and cornets became more trumpet like leading to the American Long Cornet design (classic American corner with a shepards crook). Same with Mouthpieces... cornet motives adapted wider rims and shallower cups and American trumpet cups became deeper for "legit" playing. The end result is that by the 1940s student trumpets and cornets were basically converged on the same sound and playing characteristics.

At least that's the way I remember my reading. If I can find the article it there who wrote it.. I will throw it up here.

I'm thinking that playing has become more internationally homogenized, in recent times.

The BIG trumpet mouthpieces (for "symphonic" players - American thing, I'd wager) came from "doing what Bud does".
Prior to an injury, Herseth (my understanding) played a 7C. He moved to a very large mouthpiece due to an injury, and - after healing - simply stuck with the larger mouthpiece (as he had grown accustomed).

[bloke]

I like the idea of music FESTIVALS.

I look askance at music COMPETITIONS.

[dp]

And I am used to being sniffed at by pasty-munching brass band equipment snobs.

This made me chuckle. I may be a purist.. but not a snob. You never go full snob.

What's a pasty?

They were bland, mostly-unseasoned pastries with meat and/or vegetables baked into them, almost turnover or calzone style except with the most uninteresting and unexceptional dough imaginable. They appeared very popular with the lunch crowd in the city center food courts when I was working in England. Sadly I'd already been on the water wagon for some years so I missed out on the culinary and other delights of the nearby pubs the Cornish seem to take pride in them, but it is obvious that, in other parts of England, there is no such affinity.

[iiipopes]

And I am used to being sniffed at by pasty-munching brass band equipment snobs.

This made me chuckle. I may be a purist.. but not a snob. You never go full snob.

What's a pasty?

They were bland, mostly-unseasoned pastries with meat and/or vegetables baked into them, almost turnover or calzone style except with the most uninteresting and unexceptional dough imaginable. They appeared very popular with the lunch crowd in the city center food courts when I was working in England. Sadly I'd already been on the water wagon for some years so I missed out on the culinary and other delights of the nearby pubs the Cornish seem to take pride in them, but it is obvious that, in other parts of England, there is no such affinity.

They were originally developed with a thick outer rim of crust that Cornish tin miners could hold onto so they weren't poisoned by the tin dust: you ate the part of the pasty that had the filling (yes, usually some combination of meat, veggies, potatoes, etc., for a lunch) and threw away the crust rim.

Pasty.jpeg (194.97 KiB) Viewed 2431 times

[Heavy_Metal]

This made me chuckle. I may be a purist.. but not a snob. You never go full snob.

What's a pasty?

They were bland, mostly-unseasoned pastries with meat and/or vegetables baked into them, almost turnover or calzone style except with the most uninteresting and unexceptional dough imaginable. They appeared very popular with the lunch crowd in the city center food courts when I was working in England. Sadly I'd already been on the water wagon for some years so I missed out on the culinary and other delights of the nearby pubs the Cornish seem to take pride in them, but it is obvious that, in other parts of England, there is no such affinity.

They were originally developed with a thick outer rim of crust that Cornish tin miners could hold onto so they weren't poisoned by the tin dust: you ate the part of the pasty that had the filling (yes, usually some combination of meat, veggies, potatoes, etc., for a lunch) and threw away the crust rim.
Pasty.jpeg

These are also quite popular in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, which used to be a hub of copper mining. I had my first one last summer and liked it a lot- not "bland" at all. The locals there are known as "Yoopers" and they love their pasties.

[bloke]

Back when you could still drive down Bourbon Street, my parents and I (early 60s, I was probably in the third grade or something, we also went through Natchez, vicksburg, etc.) made a trip down through Mississippi and Louisiana (combining with a business trip that my Dad had) and we drove down Bourbon Street in the evening one night without stopping.

Even so, I believe I did see some pasties.

Look at some really old pictures of the Cafe du Monde.
It's such a big business today that (as many of you know from having been there) it's got a gigantic permanent tent out in front of it to where you can't even see much of the architecture of the original building itself. Imagine nothing being there but that original building, and sitting inside there at a bar eating some of those beignets and drinking chicory coffee on one of only perhaps six or seven stools up at the bar - the only seating that was in there at that time.

I view myself as very lucky to have been born when I was.

https://share.google/VWAtqSsslZpO2SB5x

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[iiipopes]

They were bland, mostly-unseasoned pastries with meat and/or vegetables baked into them, almost turnover or calzone style except with the most uninteresting and unexceptional dough imaginable. They appeared very popular with the lunch crowd in the city center food courts when I was working in England. Sadly I'd already been on the water wagon for some years so I missed out on the culinary and other delights of the nearby pubs the Cornish seem to take pride in them, but it is obvious that, in other parts of England, there is no such affinity.

They were originally developed with a thick outer rim of crust that Cornish tin miners could hold onto so they weren't poisoned by the tin dust: you ate the part of the pasty that had the filling (yes, usually some combination of meat, veggies, potatoes, etc., for a lunch) and threw away the crust rim.
Pasty.jpeg

These are also quite popular in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, which used to be a hub of copper mining. I had my first one last summer and liked it a lot- not "bland" at all. The locals there are known as "Yoopers" and they love their pasties.

Here in Springfield, MO we have a company called "London Calling" (after the Edward R. Murrow broadcasts) whose specialty is pastys.in a variety of flavors and stuffings. They are the best on this side of the pond. I say this having been to the UK many times in the last forty-six years and eaten many, many pastys.

https://www.londoncallingpastycompany.com/

[2nd tenor]

I do NOT know if that particular model (or many other models in the Yamaha catalog) are being outsourced away from Japan now or if the 321 is even being made. But I liked it. A lot. And I am used to being sniffed at by pasty-munching brass band equipment snobs. So there. I'd probably buy one for a go at brass band playing again if the line to get into the (4? 5?) brass bands in Colorado wasn't seven dozen players long already. Shoulda jumped at the chance at RMBW 20 years ago... -30-

H’mm in the UK I think that all but non-contesting and 4th (lowest) section contesting bands would want you to play a four valve compensating instrument, which is a pity. The Eb YEB321’s have a good reputation and they have been discussed here before. Personally I’d have one, but I play for a non-contesting band and have every plan for it to remain that way. To my recollection the BBb YBB321’s aren’t quite as well regarded here (on this forum), but if one works for you then that’s nearly all that matters (of course the Conductor has got to be happy too).

“Pasty munching equipment snobs”, I suspect that means you found them to be: ‘not that bright’, common, and full of blind prejudice. It seems to me that, in virtually all of life, such folk are not un-common; there’s usually little to be done about it and they’re best humoured.

If you still want to play for a Brass Band then drift along to a few rehearsals with a (borrowed?) BBb and if they have a training Band then seek to join it (because: training band supporters that can play are almost always needed, an extra bass in rehearsals is usually helpful, being there could lead to other contacts and / or referrals being made, and, if even as a stand-in, BBb players are almost always in demand). You’ll need to be able to read treble clef music, maybe you can already read treble clef. Is playing in a Brass Band over-rated? I prefer to play in a Brass Band and here in the UK we don’t do much in the way of Wind Bands, but I wouldn’t turn my nose up at playing in a Wind Band and imho it’s the people in a group (rather than the instrumentation) that make it a great place - or not - to make music in.

https://www.rockymountainbrassworks.org/
https://www.rockymountainbrassworks.org/opportunities
https://nabba.org/bands/
https://pikespeakbrassband.com/about-us
https://www.coloradobrass.org/