mute change requests which are too quick

[bloke]

When those occur, I simply don't comply.

There seems to be a strong correlation between written music requiring fast mute changes and also having been recently written as well as additionally not seeming to be that which is likely to withstand the test of time.

I can repair dents in my bells, but I don't see any point in putting dents in them in exchange for the production of shoulder shrugging "art" (nor even B+ "art")...and - that said - my personal instruments are not budget/"pretty good for the money" instruments

My main squeeze instrument costs $25,000 to replace new, and it's in sort of better than new condition, considering all the things I've done to make it even easier to play in tune.

I'm glad to comply with mute requests in written music (whether it's a Strauss tone poem, or even something much more recently written that I personally might not consider to be particularly artful) as long as the music allows adequate time to safely insert and remove the mute.

Here's something that's sort of a sidebar and with which some of you will disagree:
With the wide use today of very large tubas with very large bells, even the best mutes designed to use with the very large instruments don't work particularly well, as those instruments simply don't respond very well to muting in general, as far as low range response and tuning consistency is concerned. Particularly 21st century composers really don't seem understand very much about muted tuba, and certainly not very much about muting the commonly used very large tubas which so many players own and use today.

(Many of 16+ inch bell "4/4" tubas - both bass and contrabass - seem to mute quite well and play quite well in all ranges with mutes - assuming a good mute, a good instrument[, and a good player,. If muting my tuba is an essential factor in a piece of music, I will use an instrument in that size range (of which I have a couple) to play a piece of music which calls for it. "con sordino" isn't synonymous for "play badly and sound bad".)

bloke, you should try a blah blah mute.

tried 'em. no thanks.
Even though it's not the largest mute manufactured, my Wick mute - LOL, with a bunch of cork - seems to work best (after trying and owning others) with my 6/4 instrument, and though it works fairly well (I wouldn't rate it as wonderful), I'm not going to frantically jab it into my $25,000 instrument nor frantically pull it out of my $25,000 instrument.

[The Brute Squad]

There seems to be a strong correlation between written music requiring fast mute changes and also having been recently written as well as additionally not seeming to be that which is likely to withstand the test of time.

Counterpoint: Pictures. After those muted Abs at the end of Gnomus, you have to pretty quickly pull the mute out, and at least for me hold the mute while playing the last note.

Not quite as bad as the poster child for too-quick mute changes (Danzón No. 2), but it's still too quick for comfort.

[bloke]

There seems to be a strong correlation between written music requiring fast mute changes and also having been recently written as well as additionally not seeming to be that which is likely to withstand the test of time.

Counterpoint: Pictures. After those muted Abs at the end of Gnomus, you have to pretty quickly pull the mute out, and at least for me hold the mute while playing the last note.

Not quite as bad as the poster child for too-quick mute changes (Danzón No. 2), but it's still too quick for comfort.

One thing that you're possibly not considering is the instrument for which Ravel's orchestration was written. Physically, it's probably about 1/5 as large as the typical tuba on which it's played today as is a mute that fits in it.

The last time I played Pictures (recently, actually), I used my (really large, yet small compared to most all modern-day tubas in any of the four commonly built lengths) compensating B-flat euphonium to play that passage and muted it, as well as the rest of that movement. Americans and possibly now most Europeans expect most of the loud/broad/cavernous (pun?) movements of that piece to be played on a jolly-Hollywood tuba, these days, so I don't deny that expectation and use such a tuba for most movements.

[Rick Denney]

The last time I was asked to use a mute was when I was using a standard 4/4 rotary tuba. That's the mute I still own (an Apperson that looks like it's made from screen-door parts), so if I need to play a piece with a mute requirement, they are getting a standard 4/4 rotary tuba.

Rick "might be able to find that mute with a good head start" Denney

[bloke]

I was trying to avoid specifics in this thread, but - if we are to discuss specifics...

"God's mute" (works remarkably well in the proper sized instruments, and is reasonably negotiable) is the smaller 4/4 size Humes and Berg aluminum mute inserted into a tuba no larger than 4/4 size.

Find the recording of my son-in-law and me (YouTube) in a joint recital playing the old Alec Wilder horn/tuba/piano suite, and find the muted tuba passage in the slow movement. I think you'll agree that the "muted resonance" is ideal, tuning is remarkably good, and - from my perspective - achieving those with my F tuba and that mute was effortless. Further, it's not just an "effect". Rather, I was playing musical phrased with that mute in.
(again: There are GOOD tuba/mute combinations and phrases written with adequate time to insert those mutes and remove them. This thread is about all the others.)

... I'm willing to queue it up and link it, if anyone's interested enough to hear it - yet not interested enough to go find it.

[prodigal]

Persichetti, Symphony for Band, the second mvt. Not enough time for even 2 186CCs and a 188 on the same riser to remove without hitting the mutes together and knocking crap everywhere. No dents on the tubas, but some dents on the trombonists.....

[bloke]

With marginally enough time for mute changes, I've been known to grab one of those leather upholstered piano benches and set the mute on it on my left side, but many stages don't offer the space to do that.
church orchestra gigs with muted passages in one or more of the parts:
nope...
because choir directors don't notice that they're marked that way, and there's never enough space to safely insert and remove a mute.

[Wilco]

Play with a half open spit valve?? Would that work?

[bloke]

Play with a half open spit valve?? Would that work?

Switch to a 24AW...
--------------------------------
almost a legitimate suggestion, were it not that doing this involves just as much trouble as inserting and removing a mute:

Put down the big tuba, and pick up a Yamaha 103.

[Rick Denney]

With marginally enough time for mute changes, I've been known to grab one of those leather upholstered piano benches and set the mute on it on my left side, but many stages don't offer the space to do that.
church orchestra gigs with muted passages in one or more of the parts:
nope...
because choir directors don't notice that they're marked that way, and there's never enough space to safely insert and remove a mute.

The times I've played at churches performing the typical Clydesdale types of musical extravaganzas were conducted by choir directors who didn't even know what "con sord" meant.

Rick "one of them held the baton with his left hand and beat time with his right hand" Denney

[1 Ton Tommy]

Muting a tuba is especially a problem and I haven't figured it out yet. Last rehearsal, the Conductor wanted the trombone, who sits next to me, muted in deference to the chorus. Trombonist hadn't brought his mute as we are into the manyith rehearsal and conductor never requested a mute before. I wear a beret (keeps my head warm). I took it off and hung it over his trombone bell. He plays the passage, so muted. Trombonist: "Will that do?"

Conductor: "Just fine."

The beret has served mute duty when dripped into my 1918 Eb Martin various times and sounds acceptable to all except me; but in such situations "me" doesn't count -- except for counting many measures out. I haven't figured out how to mute the big horns. I neither want to buy an expensive mute nor risk damaging the bells. When I first brought it to rehearsal, I had a hard time convincing the conductor that just because the Mammoth is big doesn't mean it has to be loud. I can play it softly and so haven't had to mute it, yet.

I sometimes play trumpet in pit orchestras where, for many musicals, there are many "con sord" notations in rapid secession, with like 3 beats out to mute up. For these gigs a better student horn is my choice. I play a 1950 Buescher Aristocrat I bought for 35 bucks at an instrument auction about 50 years ago. It's a tough old horn and sounds just fine for pit duty. Mute sits on the floor next to me and I jab the bell on top of it hard enough to stick and by the end of that bar I'm ready to blow "con sord." Can't do that with a tuba.

[russiantuba]

I did the Harry Potter film with orchestra a couple years back. There were some mute changes where I left my hand on the mute while playing. I guess when other pro brass drop mutes, you know it’s a quick one.