I don't like teaching private/studio lessons, and have not for decades...

[bloke]

THAT HAVING BEEN SAID,

It seems to me that weekly "MASTER CLASSES" would be a really interesting way to do (otherwise) INDIVIDUAL lessons.
- If only a dozen students, bring them all in (mixing ability levels - just as with the old one-room school house).
- If dozens of students, group them into similar ability level master classes.

- Charge each student less than for "private lessons", increasing the likelihood of affordability.
--- Let's say that the teacher is not the local "top-dawg", so can't demand $100+/hr., but has been charging $50/hr.
With the "master class" situation, they can still charge (perhaps) $40/hr. to each of a dozen students, and (after 2+ hours or so)
has collected up c. $500.

- The teacher won't be driving all over town (at the worst time of the day) to meet with various students (including no-shows).
- These need to be perhaps 2-1/2 hours long, so that each student gets heard and critiqued (and perhaps even offers feedback as these can be DISCUSSION-ORIENTED, as long as the teach controls the amount of time that comments/discussion consume (and - of course) MOST of the comments/discussion are teacher-originated), AND/YET EACH STUDENT...
--- learns from other students' shortcomings being critiqued AS WELL AS from from other students' achievements/successes
--- it could well be that some of the students insights are very valid and may well be insights that didn't occur to the teacher/master
--- overcomes the fear of performing in front of others
--- is much more highly motivated to prepare lesson material, as it will be in front of several peers

Finally, this might self-generate a higher-energy and more enthusiastic environment, perhaps with some humor/comradery injected into the formula.

Five or size two hour dozen-student masterclasses per week (for some of you who might be really motivated, are "pied pipers", and really have your $h!t together) could generate $2500 - $3000 per week (with just one dozen-pupil masterclass per day - Sundays off)...

EVEN IF ALL STUDENTS TOOK OFF FOR THE SUMMER BREAKS, FALL BREAKS, WINTER BREAKS AND SPRING BREAKS, this could generate over $100,000/year (again, with the really go-get-'em/pied-piper/super-enthusiasm-generating type of teacher, teaching in a really large market).

[Mary Ann]

My impression of master classes that I have seen has been in scenarios where a visiting master of some kind has victims on stage one at a time. The victims are generally so terrified that they can barely hold their instruments, and they play at about 50% of their ability. Then the master starts telling them things to do, and they start to relax and play a bit better because they are no longer falling-down can't-breathe nervous. Then the master gets credit for their improvement. I always found it both sad and hilarious.
If one could do it not mirroring the above scenario, with students who did not die of nerves (you can tell I hate performing and actually refuse to do solos,) it could be useful. There is really very little that can be said / shown in any one lesson because people can't absorb more than one or two things at a time, anyway. And it will generally take them more than one week to make those changes. I never understood weekly lessons either.

[bloke]

My impression of master classes that I have seen has been in scenarios where a visiting master of some kind has victims on stage one at a time. The victims are generally so terrified that they can barely hold their instruments, and they play at about 50% of their ability. Then the master starts telling them things to do, and they start to relax and play a bit better because they are no longer falling-down can't-breathe nervous. Then the master gets credit for their improvement. I always found it both sad and hilarious.
If one could do it not mirroring the above scenario, with students who did not die of nerves (you can tell I hate performing and actually refuse to do solos,) it could be useful. There is really very little that can be said / shown in any one lesson because people can't absorb more than one or two things at a time, anyway. And it will generally take them more than one week to make those changes. I never understood weekly lessons either.

agreed , but week-in/week-out, the only one like that would be (just as with an out-of-towner) the FIRST one.

The most hilarious one (as you describe) was a teenage James Markey (who wasn't nervous, and who obviously played better than the "master").
Check out the expression on the "master's" face.

[tubanh84]

I have wanted to do this for a long time.

Back when I was in college, I spent a couple summers at the Domaine Forget program in Quebec, which included daily masterclasses with Roger Bobo and Lance Nagels. They were great. Fun, relaxed, motivational. We usually did group exercises, got Roger's and Lance's insights into various aspects of playing, and then two or three students would play in front of the class and get a lesson on their piece in front of everyone.

It had a lot of benefits, I thought. Everyone got experience performing in front of a group. You not only heard feedback on your own playing; you heard feedback on everyone's playing, so we all learned a lot more than we would have just having our own lessons. We all heard much more repertoire than we would otherwise have been exposed to.

So. Suffice to say, it's been in the back of my head to do something like this locally for a long time. I've just never pulled the trigger.

[Mary Ann]

For those who enjoy performing and want the continued exposure to that situation, I can see that the scenario you describe would be very beneficial.

[bloke]

For those who enjoy performing and want the continued exposure to that situation, I can see that the scenario you describe would be very beneficial.

yeah...
Even with bachelor degree "senior recitals", too many have the flutters, because they're playing in front of more than their teacher.
I think it's good, and I'm complimented that you agree that there are possible benefits.
Also (income strategy) those students who later decide that they would prefer private instruction can be bumped up to $75, and - (again) if the "master" (a fine teacher, no doubt) doesn't have enough cachet to demand $100, $75 get's 'em closer, yes?

[prodigal]

I teach year round master classes at local high school. They are more difficult than teaching private lessons for the following reasons

Sometimes what needs to be said in private about a honest assessment of a student cannot and shoiid not be said in front of his friends and peers
These classes are wildly imbalanced as far as ability goes, so you have to find a middle ground with the students to not frustrate the lesser abilities in the room, but that tends to bore the better students
When you are used to teaching one at a time, talking to a class can be very hard on your voice

I'm not saying they are worthless, because they do help those that cannot get into lessons, but for what the school pays me to teach them, they could easily scholarship the 2 students at the school that don't take lessons (out of 11 tuba players)

[tofu]

No parent would go along with the economic arithmetic of this. The nominal rate in your scenario is instructor charges $50/hr for a private lesson per individual. For a discount of 20% off the individual charge of $50 their child is thrown into a master class aka (group lesson) with 11 other students of varying abilities for $40 per class. In theory their child receives 1/12 of the teachers attention or 8.5% of the total time. At the private lesson rate of $50/hr that works out to be $50 x 8.5% =$4.25 of value. With the group charge they are paying $40 and now receiving just $4.25 of value at the original $50 rate. In effect they are paying almost 9.5 times as much for the value received now under the group lesson scenario as they were paying for an individual lesson. Great economic deal for the instructor - terrible deal for the student & parent paying. People will demand a much better deal. At best they might be willing to pay $15 but I suspect many would want $10 a class. Not so great for the instructor as at $15 x 12 they are pulling in $180 vs the individual charge of $50 x 12 =$600.00 - they do under the group rate increase their hourly rate to $90 an hour since it’s a 2 hour class. They also have an extra 10 hours they theorectically could fill with more class lessons or individual lessons. In addition they have also saved a bunch of time driving around I guess if the kids don’t travel to them for lessons. But kids aren’t sitting through a 2 hour or 2.5 hour class - not after sitting through classes all day.

But what really happens in master classes is a few people get all the individual attention so they get most of the value. Kids also have short attention spans (I’m not a teacher - just my personal observations) and they really aren’t going to pay much attention when they are the audience watching another student. Plus, most of the students are going to have a lot of different needs and things to be addressed. So for example the students who don’t have a tonguing issue are now going to have to sit through a discussion of tonguing - their minds will wander all over the place. If my kids had an instructor propose such a lopsided idea as this - my kids would in short order have a new private lesson teacher.

The only master classes I ever thought were worth my time were the all day week long summer sessions Arnold Jacobs did every summer at NU. But he was the ultimate master music teacher, ultimate master musician and just as important someone (unlike virtually all other musicians) who had thoroughly researched the science of the body & playing. Equally important he had the ability to convey that knowledge in an easy to comprehend way. And those sessions were dirt cheap - if I recall like $50 for the week or a total of 40 hours.

[prodigal]

The conversation here is great. I wish that in my area, we had enough student tuba players to warrant a masterclass. The high school where I teach doesn't have one (until I show up), and we don't see any coming down the pipeline anytime soon, unless I conscript someone.

I've already done this with my principal cellist. He wanted to play drums, because his girlfriend is in band. (He He, a treble hook in the mouth.) He has an excellent ear, so I said he can play timpani when needed, but there is a much greater need: Euphonium, as it's the solo cello of band, same role, easier instrument to play. Money, Money! He asked: "is that the same thing as baritone? My Dad (super supportive) playeed the baritone... GOTCHA!

Are things as dire in your neck of the woods?

[gocsick]

I would do this as a student... but I could see why most students will not.. Life as a scientist/academic means I am comfortable with public critique in a way most people are not.

[arpthark]

Folks in the college academia sphere, do most tuba studios do weekly or biweekly masterclasses with the tuba prof?

We had a weekly studio class which was usually a masterclass with the tuba professor (or a guest tuba person) but occasionally brass area recitals or School of Music-wide recitals during that same time slot.

[bloke]

I would do this as a student... but I could see why most students will not.. Life as a scientist/academic means I am comfortable with public critique in a way most people are not.

Yeah. I wonder if you're making my point.
There are quite a few who believe that they're playing like angels and - when they're asked to play differently (or - God forbid - better) in front of others, they have to go their safe space after the rehearsal.

previous comment about "money's worth"
That may be correct, but I believe a weekly master class would allow considerable bit more energy in the room for the two or two and a half hours than the amount of energy in the room for a 45 minute private lesson, so much more would be learned from the interaction, and - again - so much more weekly motivation (playing in front of a bunch of peers, who are also trying to become better musicians) would be in place. I just believe that a weekly (basically) performance in front of a group of others is so much more motivating.

[bloke]

It's my belief that a large percentage of students really don't hear themselves playing, because they're so busy being instrument operators - to whom operating an instrument is not yet second nature. Spending part (quite a bit) of their lesson time in a masterclass (listening to others go through what they're going through) I believe teaches so much more than they can learn while (on the spot in a private lesson) struggling to change something about the way they're playing (again, yet really not listening to themselves doing it, and not actually hearing the difference).

Out of curiosity - probably ten years ago, I sat and watched one of these with a retired orchestral player from out of town. A local college student offered forth a very tentative and confidential sound, yet - in their own head - it probably sounded very refined. The master was trying to convince them otherwise, and they weren't reacting very much. Finally he had the student play the way they normally played, and then play what seemed to the student to be over the top. After polling the other participants and even the spectators, 100 to 0 voted for the playing that the student viewed as way too loud and over the top (as it was a little more than playing a forte passage at forte).

[russiantuba]

No parent would go along with the economic arithmetic of this. The nominal rate in your scenario is instructor charges $50/hr for a private lesson per individual. For a discount of 20% off the individual charge of $50 their child is thrown into a master class aka (group lesson) with 11 other students of varying abilities for $40 per class. In theory their child receives 1/12 of the teachers attention or 8.5% of the total time. At the private lesson rate of $50/hr that works out to be $50 x 8.5% =$4.25 of value. With the group charge they are paying $40 and now receiving just $4.25 of value at the original $50 rate. In effect they are paying almost 9.5 times as much for the value received now under the group lesson scenario as they were paying for an individual lesson. Great economic deal for the instructor - terrible deal for the student & parent paying. People will demand a much better deal. At best they might be willing to pay $15 but I suspect many would want $10 a class. Not so great for the instructor as at $15 x 12 they are pulling in $180 vs the individual charge of $50 x 12 =$600.00 - they do under the group rate increase their hourly rate to $90 an hour since it’s a 2 hour class. They also have an extra 10 hours they theorectically could fill with more class lessons or individual lessons. In addition they have also saved a bunch of time driving around I guess if the kids don’t travel to them for lessons. But kids aren’t sitting through a 2 hour or 2.5 hour class - not after sitting through classes all day.

My nephews started basic sports. My 3 year old one did flag football and apparently last week he didn’t want to go or do it. There were 4 coaches there with a group of 10-12 kids each (too many running around to count). People are willing to do it for sports, when they could pay the same amount for 1 on 1 lessons too. I get it, the interaction is important.

I much prefer individual lessons as a teacher. It takes guts getting to play and be critiqued amongst your peers by an instructor, but as an instructor, I get to know my students, about them as people, what they need and how they have grown. That bond between teacher and student in the private studio setting can be a very strong one long term. I do enjoy when I hear from my former students on what they are doing and when I can help.

[bloke]

Simply posting this idea that popped into my head (as a weekly thing instead of as a once every few years special guest artist thing) has got me thinking about it more and more.

Those who don't believe that competition promotes excellence aren't going to like the idea very much... But I also believe that there's competition that can be combined with camaraderie and encouraging ones comrades and classmates to do their best, while we ourselves are trying to do even better than they are doing.

I continue to emphasize the energy in the room aspect of this type of situation. If either the teacher, the student, or both are not quite up to their regular energy level or maybe have a little bug and are a little bit sick, a private lesson is going to be pretty much a waste of time, YET with 8 or 10 other people in the room who are feeling pretty well and are up to full energy level, those can bump up the adrenaline and cognitive levels of those who walked in sort of feeling like zombies, and everyone gets a boost.

Of course, I - the ever-controversial bloke - am the very same person who questions the concept of a "major instrument" (paying lip service to all the other instruments, while working on a band director degree which teaches all instruments). What studio teachers don't seem to realize is that - were the system changed, whereby band director degrees involved working equally on reasonable level mastery of all band instruments - they themselves would still have just as much work to do (teaching their instrument) at their universities. ... Actually, the likelihood is that they have more work to do, rather than less.

[tubanh84]

The concerns about the dynamic of (a) being critiqued in front of others and (b) having people be at different levels and feeling "less than" in front of others is handled by the method of teaching. If it is positive, constructive, and everyone's successes, however small, are celebrated, it is not an issue.

It also lets people in the room ponder what they would tell the person who is the subject of the lesson that day and hear what the professional instructor says, which in turn makes everyone in the room a better teacher.

But in a tuba community, it's not like people already won't know who the stronger or weaker players are and have most of those thoughts anyway. The communal lesson wouldn't do anything to exacerbate that.

Additionally, having been an adult beginner in weightlifting, skateboarding, and snowboarding over the last decade, what I can say is that in all of those settings, people respect you for just showing up. And they respect you more for seeking instruction and taking it seriously, rather than winging it and learning badly. If handled correctly, the group lessons can be the same way. But that comes down to the teacher telegraphing that response.

[bloke]

a summary of the last bit of the previous post:

You are a cool/okay person, because you are interested in delving into the same thing that I'm interested in and in discovering how well you can eventually do it.

[russiantuba]

Bloke,

I’d personally prefer a masterclass where someone that doesn’t play my instrument leads it. Imagine a great cellist coaching tubas on the musical aspect of playing.

For years, I have suggested to the ITEA panels to get a professional panel for the orchestral tuba and mock military euphonium audition, even if it is just a regional orchestra. I’d rather hear what the horns and trombones would say about my playing than the tubist holding the chair. I would learn on what to work on for my playing.

As a musician, my goal is not to make tubists happy. I put too much pressure on myself, where I want to make musicians who play other instruments to enjoy my playing.

I studied with Jim Akins for my DMA. I’ve had multiple musicians on a wide variety of instruments tell me how good of a musician he was, not just a tubist. String instruments, pianists, vocalists even. Tubists that know 20 excerpts and the RVW say “who is that”.

[bloke]

Every summer in kolij (when taking all the garbage classes with which I didn't waste time checking them off over entire semesters:
American-English, American history narratives, psycho-ology, socialism-ology, etc., etc.)

- pre-summer session (two weeks, very intense)
- summer session 1 (six weeks)
- summer session 2 (six weeks)

but I also studied with a very gifted (gifted, as far as teaching was concerned) HORN player who - sadly - had a severe "performance anxiety" problem. After each weekly lesson, we would play a match of tennis. I was able to sign up through the university and take these (not horn, "MUSIC") lessons with him for less than he would have charged me personally. Horn players (no offense, tuba teachers) are taught to (and HOW to) phrase. Tuba teachers may know how to phrase...AND SOME TUBA STUDIOS IN 2026 FEATURE VERY ABLE STUDENTS WHEREBY THESE SKILLS CAN BE TAUGHT TO THEM BY THEIR STUDIO TEACHERS...but (truth) many college level "tuba majors" (yes, in 2026) are playing "technique catch-up", and there isn't much time that can be devoted (in "remedial" private instruction) to delve into the craft of phrasing.

(After year 1, I realized that I wasn't particularly interested in teaching - and - mostly - was interested in playing reasonably well-playing gigs...YET (since I had spent a year of my life on it) I went ahead and finished the degree up in two more years (ie. as quickly as I could). Ensemble directors (I heard) had no idea that I was "done"/not returning, and ended up with "holes" in their ensembles.

[Mary Ann]

Anyone who wants to learn the basics of phrasing should just read Tabuteau's book. I probably spelled his name wrong. On the contrary, if a person is "innately musical," I consider it bordering on insulting when a teacher who cant help with technique - which is why the student came for a lesson in the first place - instead starts preaching about the "correct" musical "interpretation" of the music the student is seeking help with on a technique level.