DCI Costs—a pending collapse

[Misfituba64]

I honestly don’t understand why this needed to turn into a “could DCI collapse?” discussion.

You looked at one top corps’ audition page, saw camp fees and travel costs, and somehow jumped to questioning whether the entire activity might go under. That’s a pretty massive leap.

Drum corps has never been cheap. Not in the 90s. Not in the 2000s. Kids have always fundraised, worked jobs, or made sacrifices to march. Touring the country with buses, trucks, staff, food, insurance, and equipment isn’t getting cheaper, so I’m not sure what people expect the alternative to be.

The idea that “hundreds show up so camp fees should cover everything” also ignores how much overhead actually exists. Facilities, instructional staff, admin, medical coverage, logistics. Those costs add up fast.

Respectfully, growing up poor and not being able to afford it doesn’t mean the model is broken or headed toward collapse. Lots of elite activities aren’t accessible to everyone financially. That’s unfortunate, but it isn’t new.

If the goal is helping students, the advice seems pretty straightforward. Be honest about the cost and help them decide if the experience is worth it.

Framing it as an existential crisis for DCI just feels unnecessary and honestly a bit dramatic.

[russiantuba]

I honestly don’t understand why this needed to turn into a “could DCI collapse?” discussion.

You looked at one top corps’ audition page, saw camp fees and travel costs, and somehow jumped to questioning whether the entire activity might go under. That’s a pretty massive leap.

Drum corps has never been cheap. Not in the 90s. Not in the 2000s. Kids have always fundraised, worked jobs, or made sacrifices to march. Touring the country with buses, trucks, staff, food, insurance, and equipment isn’t getting cheaper, so I’m not sure what people expect the alternative to be.

The idea that “hundreds show up so camp fees should cover everything” also ignores how much overhead actually exists. Facilities, instructional staff, admin, medical coverage, logistics. Those costs add up fast.

Respectfully, growing up poor and not being able to afford it doesn’t mean the model is broken or headed toward collapse. Lots of elite activities aren’t accessible to everyone financially. That’s unfortunate, but it isn’t new.

If the goal is helping students, the advice seems pretty straightforward. Be honest about the cost and help them decide if the experience is worth it.

Framing it as an existential crisis for DCI just feels unnecessary and honestly a bit dramatic.

You misread all of what I meant. The first thing is if you look at inflation rates and the overall costs, drum corps have exponentially gone up. Again, I knew a member who wasn’t rich who would go around and collect cans, someone involved in the marching arts still as his profession, who has commented about the costs being impossible except for the elite few. The financial level of those able to participate is getting more “elitist”.

Second, just in the past several years, I’ve seen at least 1 top 10 corp go under, others not doing as extensive tours and as many shows (I don’t follow them much, but follow what people put).

Third, this entire topic I have seen brought up on other forums several times. You now see every big corp mentioning the costs and how they are trying to keep things low. I’ve also seen others post about the need for a restructure. I wanted to share the discussion here.

I must ask, with the costs of operation and the reduction of current travel, how much longer does DCI have without a major overhaul?

[rollo]

Drum corps has never been cheap.

ummmm what? I was just at an alumni event this weekend, and this very topic came up. Members from the late 80's/early 90's were saying dues when they started were $450, and after marching 5/6/7 years, they ended up paying nothing their age out years as dues got cheaper with every year you marched.

The step down payment scheme may not have been common, but $450 in today's dollar's is like $1300. Current tour fees are in now running into the 6k range for some groups before you add in all the camp fees already mentioned, and it absolutely is an existential crisis for the activity.

Part of the problem is certainly how travel costs have exploded since the 90's, but the consolidation/loss of regionality for groups is i think the bigger issue. There used to be hundreds of drum corps across the US with way more performance opportunities locally. 30 years ago, a group could survive on the local population to fill out their ranks and they could be competitive in the south east vfw circuit without having to travel more than 100 miles from their home base. Heck, almost every drum corps event I've attended where there were sizeable numbers of alumni from the 70's/80's had some conversation in which someone told a version of the same story: i got caught shoplifiting/vandelizing/being a hooligan and the cops gave me 2 choices; go to juvie or join the local drum corps. These used to be much more community focused organizations.

Now there are fraction of the number of ensembles, and all those regional circuits fell under the DCI banner and now EVERYTHING is about Indy and touring. You can't get good scores and seeding if you don't go to DCI shows, and there are fewer every year. Recent schedules have groups performing barely a dozen times over the summer?

DCI is obviously trying to address some of these issues by absorbing DCA, and with their weekend only format costs are much more achievable. The competition aspect remains a challenge as there is a heavy concentration of those groups on the East coast making expansion elsewhere difficult.

For those that can afford it, DCI is an invaluable experience. There is absolutely nothing like being in a group of people that large, all focused on sending their best efforts toward the same goal. I don't see DCI collapsing per say, but as quickly as costs have risen for the activity something is going to have to give sooner or later.

[prodigal]

Well, you can watch it on FloMarching, so there is money involved.

(I'm too cheap to subscribe to FloRacing, let alone marching.)

[Bassboner]

I always referred to DCI as the monster truck racing of music. In Rochester NY I lived within earshot of the field where a local band practiced and some times wound up at the local pub with them ("Wubs"). Honestly, it was just another club thing to be involved with, which is perfectly fine, but I looked at it as a primarily tangential "musical" kind of experience - yes, it involved some degree of musicality, but intonation and tone were comparatively marginal ideas. I never had the opportunity or desire to be a member growing up. I mostly tried to avoid even marching with the HS band for football games or parades.

I did spend a couple of weeks one summer at a music camp, but I was a last minute inclusion on a scholarship because the camp needed another bone player. That was a very rewarding musical experience. Most kids were there because they were good musicians, yes, but also because their parents could afford to send them. So this was an enlightening experience for me on a lot of levels, as I was a relatively low-income hick straight out of the woods who happened to practice trombone a lot. Practicing was free and something I could do independently, so I did it a lot. I got private lessons for $5/week from an area trombonist who was also a public music teacher.

All of music as a profession is flooded with over-educated and over-privileged kids. It doesn't bode well for the future of a profession that makes enough money to support itself, whether of DCI or Interlochen or touring big bands or professional orchestras. The arts are a much better avocation than profession. Enough people pay money that they earned somewhere else just to be close to the activity that it takes much or most of the money out of trying to do arts in any professional capacity. A few people are lucky enough to be able to do it, but not nearly as many as those who study it. It's just the way economics and society work. Most of us still get to be involved in music, but as volunteers, or even just a pay-to-play capacity. We do it for the joy it gives us as musicians rather than being paid for the joy we bring others. Sad? Maybe, but that's just the way it is. No one really is owed a profession in the arts when there are so many volunteers (or contributors) willing and equally able to do it for nothing.

Plus, the whole idea of "content" these days is taken for granted - its just something you get for free, and only has value based on how much advertising you can bracket around it.

[Schlitzz]

FloProgressive has been really annoying for years.

[bloke]

Do you think it would help too raise the status of drum and bugle corps and bring in more sponsorship money were they to rename themselves "marching wind symphonies" ?