a post about setting tubas on their bells (perhaps not what some might expect to read)

[ghmerrill]

Little fold out floor stands that support tuba with the bells facing up (shown above)... Those scare the crap out of me, and I would never use one, regardless of whether it's German made or Chinese made.

I wouldn't put my tuba on that stand and walk away from it. But if it's a choice between putting the tuba on the stand that is sitting right beside my chair, or putting the tuba on its bell right beside my chair, I'll use the stand.

[bloke]

These are (what I believe to be) my three most valuable/important tubas.

They STAY just about like THIS most ALL the time (unless one of them is in its hard case - back from a gig, but not yet unpacked).

not posed. I just swiveled around from my desk and snapped this.
LOOK MA, NO BELL CREASES!
weird-looking mouthpiece: It's threaded for rims. Being a cheapskate, I move ONE rim back-and-forth between these three instruments.

[ghmerrill]

These are (what I believe to be) my three most valuable/important tubas.
...
They STAY just about like THIS most ALL the time

They look great -- and safe. My Cerveny 781 (not quite a 16" bell) was not sufficiently stable to leave it on its bell like that.

[bloke]

So many tubas that people bring into me (and let's face it, most adult-owned tubas which feature bells which been creased and repaired) didn't have their rims straightened back to conform to a perfect or nearly-perfect geometric plane after the creases were removed. That's often the problem with standing tubas up on their bells safely (in an out-of-the-way or controlled space).

Those bell rims are not planar, and - this - the tubas can rock back and forth.

[prodigal]

These are (what I believe to be) my three most valuable/important tubas.

They STAY just about like THIS most ALL the time (unless one of them is in its hard case - back from a gig, but not yet unpacked).

not posed. I just swiveled around from my desk and snapped this.
LOOK MA, NO BELL CREASES!
weird-looking mouthpiece: It's threaded for rims. Being a cheapskate, I move ONE rim back-and-forth between these three instruments.

I vote for the one in the middle as MVP. The one behind it is the breadwinner, though..

[ghmerrill]

Those bell rims are not planar, and - this - the tubas can rock back and forth.

Yeah. But also -- and I've never had a tuba that rocked in that way -- there can simply be an issue with the center of gravity of the instrument, which makes putting it on its bell a very tenuous situation. It doesn't appear that in the history of tubas and euphoniums "We've got to be sure that the player can put this thing on its bell in a stable way." has ever been a design principle or goal. Whether you CAN safely put your horn on its bell (independently of someone stepping on it) can straightforwardly depend on what horn you're doing that with. And of course it also depends on how much free (and safe) floor space you may have around you. Putting your horn on its bell isn't a universally reliable "one size fits all in every situation with every instrument" solution.

[bloke]

I very recently repaired one of those tall scantly 16 inch bell diameter B&S-made tubas that Selmer USA imported in the 1970s which are engraved "Meister Gerhardt Schneider".
There's no doubt that the valve section's center of gravity pulls very hard and encourages the instrument to tip over, but I eventually got the rim planar and it finally sat down flat on the floor in spite of that. Those instruments - as well as those of your model - will stand up and not rock when the bell is properly formed (or re-formed), but it requires what I described above, and of course they are more prone to tip over when someone bumps into them... but again: Leaning them against a solid object or wall negates that. I still maintain that resting a tuba on its bell against a solid object is safer than storing one bell up on most any of the stands, including those heavy ones that are mostly painted black with some yellow trim. Even that super safe and super sturdy "Tuba Tamer" Wenger product that I mentioned offers a hazard of placing the bell rim right where someone might hit it with their arms or with an object and its side supports present the hazard of denting the instrument while removing it from the stand.
I'm admitting your point, but that just means that it requires even more perfection in the straightness of the rim in order to prevent such instruments from rocking back and forth and falling over with little prompting.

[Mary Ann]

What I have noted that may or may not be singular to my experience, is that doddering in orchestras is worse than doddering in bands. I have no idea why. Meaning, I have had many more close calls with the violin than I have with a tuba. One reason I am reluctant to go the community orchestra route with the cello is that it is so immensely trippable when set down on its side during the break. I mean, whereya gonna put it? At home it's on a Hercules stand, because I learned long ago that I do not practice instruments that I have to wrestle out of cases. So tubas, cellos, euphoniums, sit out.

To date, all tuba adventures have been brass band, TE quartet, or brass quintet. All those people are exceedingly careful about bells because they all HAVE bells. Maybe if I go the concert band route I'll have to rethink but I hope not, and I would start with the 183 which is already in a pretty bashed condition.

All tubas to date have been fine sitting on bells, but they also are snugged up against a chair on one side, not that the chair is going to protect them, but the chair does make a bigger thing to see before walking into it. I have now migrated to having the NStar sit on a four-inch-tall piece of styrofoam that is slightly larger than the bell, and white, so people are even less likely to step on it. It also makes sure I have enough room to my left to set the tuba down, consternating the chair-arrangers who think tubas are cornets and only need cornet room.

[bloke]

@Mary Ann

Playing hopscotch through stringed instruments - each of which is likely worth at least double the value of the most expensive tuba there is - scares the hell out of me, and I avoid walking anywhere near them, just as I would avoid nuclear waste.
I may have told a story one time about playing a runout orchestra job on a portable outdoor stage. There was a small pop-up tent right next to it. I went into the pop-up tent to set my music folder on the edge of the big portable stage and there was a cellist in there warming up. It worried me so much that psychologically it later made me forget where I set my folder, and - for the entire concert - I had to borrow a friend's tablet and grab all the PDFs off the musicians' website to play the concert.

[Mary Ann]

I don't understand why a cellist warming up would be upsetting. S/he was THAT bad?

[bloke]

I don't understand why a cellist warming up would be upsetting. S/he was THAT bad?

I had previously unpacked my instrument in there, my large case was in there, and it was a tight squeeze between my case, that cello player warming up, and my narrow path to the edge of the stage with my folder... I wasn't aware they were in there until I walked in.
I just don't like maneuvering near very fragile and very expensive stuff that doesn't belong to me.

[iiipopes]

Besson BBb tubas and all those patterned after them, including Yamaha, are the worst because the center of gravity is so far outboard they will fall over on their own. I personally do not set my tuba on its bell. Period.

[LibraryMark]

Most King 2280 euphs have a dent in one of their front tubes because they will not balance on their bells, but people try anyway.

[arpthark]

If you dent the bottom bow flat enough, you don't have to worry about setting them down on their bells.

[bloke]

Most King 2280 euphs have a dent in one of their front tubes because they will not balance on their bells, but people try anyway.

Yep. I would never set a euphonium (certainly not compensating and certainly not 11-inch bell) independently on its bell without bracing it against a solid vertical surface and I wasn't speaking about euphoniums but...to your point: yes.

I still challenge quite a few people to sight across their bell rims, as critically as possible and from different sides...maybe even - if someone has a piece of window glass that's larger than the bell's footprint - set that piece of glass on the bell carefully. That will absolutely tell the story. MOST customers' tuba bell rims are roller-coastered and warped.

@arpthark
You may remember that the 186 C tuba that I acquired with five factory valves from the 1960s and restored (which ended up being God's 186c, as the intonation is perfect) was received with a football shaped dent in the center of the bottom bow.
That 1X,XXX viewed YouTube short clip from Polovetsian Dances, was from the afternoon after I unboxed it just in time to take it to a rehearsal full of cobwebs, with rattling valves, bell creases, and that huge dent in the center of the bottom of the bottom bow.
I tipped it over, showed it to the brass section during the rehearsal, and asked them if they thought the tuba was flat.

original point topic reminder:
Setting tubas on their bells reasonably carefully will not cause their bells to crease - simply from the weight of the instrument.

[ghmerrill]

If you dent the bottom bow flat enough, you don't have to worry about setting them down on their bells.

Yeah, but in many cases (particularly of older tubas) that's very difficult to do because of the heavy protective plate that's soldered at exactly that point to prevent exactly that sort of dent -- not to mention those really nifty studs projecting from such plates that the Brits liked to use for strap anchors). So you first have to remove the plate.

Also, if you do take this approach, I can definitely recommend red/rose brass as the material you want for your tuba. It makes dent modifications so much easier to accomplish, and that can often be done simply by squeezing the instrument with some vigor with your hand. (Note: some earlier Chinese instruments also supported this approach with the special metallurgy of their yellow brass instruments. Older American/Czech/German/Russian instruments seem not to have employed this advanced technology -- and thus are more resistant to such modifications.)