a post about setting tubas on their bells (perhaps not what some might expect to read)

[bloke]

- The obvious reason to not set tubas on their bells in high traffic areas is to avoid them being knocked over by others or by ourselves.
- To reduce the likelihood of having them knocked over, it's always a good idea to lean them against the stationary object.
- Carefully and gingerly setting a tuba on its bell will not crease the bell, and this includes thinner sheet metal bells and wider bells. It requires much more than 15 to 20 lb of static weight from above to crease a tuba bell. Without any motion to multiply the effect of the pressure, my guess (not being any sort of physicist) is that it would take a considerable number of hundreds of pounds to cause a bell flare to give way under these conditions, in the same way that walking up to a parked locomotive and pressing up quite firmly against it against it would cause a person no harm, yet very slowly setting one of the wheels of a locomotive on a person would certainly cause profound harm (as a portion of a half million pounds is considerably more profound that a person - standing still - pressing themselves up against a locomotive with all their might).

Tuba bell flairs are creased as a result of motion combined with mass/weight/etc., and not due to the static weight of the rest of the instrument pressing down on the bell flare (not even if a bell flair has been damaged and repaired several times).

When I switch back and forth between tuba and cimbasso in pops concerts, of course I have to set my tubas on their bells (and usually it's my huge 6/4 BB-flat, and with a very limited and oddly-shaped three dimensional area in which to manipulate the instrument from playing position to a tiny spot on stage to set the tuba down), but it simply has to be done quickly and with great care. It (setting an instrument on its bell quickly and carefully with limited space available) might even be something worth practicing doing, for others who switch instruments during concerts - particularly those who use tripod playing stands whereby the tripod legs can become treacherous objects to avoid, along with microphone wires strung across the floor which can also present obvious issues which can often be enough to cause tipping.

More than a small percentage of tubas brought in for me to repair feature "roller coaster" (non-planar) bell rims, due to having had creases removed in the past without having simultaneously had the rim straightened (as nearly 100% of the time when bells are creased, the rims are also bent out of plane). This feature, obviously causes instability as well (just as can microphone wires strung across the floor) and probably (??) non-planar rims should be addressed. Perhaps this requires a repairman with a fairly artistic eye to be able to sight across a bell from all sorts of different angles to spot imperfections in the plane of the bell rim, but dips and protrusions even as little as 1/16th of an inch can define instability when a tuba is sitting on its bell (particularly with the upper part NOT resting against a wall or a solid object).

Finally, there are a few tubas (often rotary, yet somewhat lightweight linkage) that do throw enough weight away from the bell to define it a bit of instability even with a perfectly planar bell rim. Though I'm saying it, it should probably go without saying that taller tubas with narrower bells are less stable than shorter tubas with wider belts regardless of everything else, but setting any tuba on its bell carefully (again) will not result in creasing.

SUMMARY:
Carefully setting tubas on their bells - regardless of the gauge of metal and diameter of the bell rim - does not directly cause bell flair damage.

PERHAPS ANOTHER POST ON ANOTHER DAY:
the fallacy of the necessity of depressing valves when removing slides, and - if this actually does seem to cause a valve to stick - what actually causes this.

NOT A CRITICISM, BUT AN OBSERVATION:
As fewer and fewer people live very much in the 3D world - and more and more people mostly live in the E world, fewer and fewer people seem to inherently understand things such as these, and more more people tend to mis-associate causes and effects of quite a few types of things, and not just 3D things.

[prodigal]

Some of the finest words I've heard!

Other things that anger (p!$$-the dollar signs are for the cost in repairs) me, anyone leaving any instrument on their chair, whether it be make of metal or wood! It is going to get knocked over, especially in a room with the least coordinated species on earth, children!

My new, old 1960 186CC with the narrow bell is much more "tippy" feeling than my old 1998 one. Even at home switching between CC and F, I've got to lean her up against something to give me any peace.

And add to that our disposable society. Everything is to be used up and trashed. Why not instruments, especially when they are on loan from a school!

[bloke]

Setting a tuba on its bell in a school band room is just asking for it (the equivalent of playing in traffic), but I'm also talking about adult situations such as community bands and even professional symphony orchestras.

Quite a few years ago, one of the local community bands asked me to come to a rehearsal and play a concert with them. At that time - before his passing, the music director of that band was a widely-beloved person for whom I would have done just about anything. Of course I agreed to do that.

What I did not know was that there was a worked out schedule of different band members at each rehearsal being required to set up and break down the set, as those who had previously done it as volunteers every single time had become weary of doing it without any thanks nor gratitude... so there was some undertone of resentment involved in taking the set down after the rehearsal.

I started trying to pack up, and one of the band members began engaging me in conversation. The set was being broken down so hurriedly and carelessly that a music stand got knocked over and missed the bell of my (at that time) 6/4 German-made C tuba by angstroms.

[anadmai]

if there isn't a place to set my horn down, I'll walk around carrying it. When I'm walking through a crowd or through the band, I press the horn up over my head. Imma tall girl, and when I hold my horn up over my head, there is less of a chance of something knocking into it or dropping something on it.

I'm very very very particular about it. In 1989 Leaf Peterson knocked over my Euphonium and caused its first dent. 37 years later and I will never forget that trombone playing doofus.

I will only put my horn down on its bell if and only if there is zero traffic around said location.

Now I have to say I agree with two things you've said around here. Stop it.

[bloke]

If you're agreeing with my posts in regards to 3D types of things, perhaps there's hope.

[Bassboner]

I vote for a stand. If you've got a cart with wheels, a tuba stand is not an unreasonable addition, especially if you have to leave your ax somewhere. An angled piece of plywood with some sort of centering cone would be ok. Standing a tuba on the bottom bow requires a really big stand. In lieu of a stand, maybe a corner if you've got one. The case is always the best option.

Trombones are unstable even (especially) on a stand, but it's better than leaving it any other way except in the case. I've invested in a couple of lightweight stands that fold and I don't mind carrying around and can even carry in the case.

We all love convenience, but musical instruments are oddly shaped andvulnerable devices and don't lend much to convenience.

[bloke]

Unless it's one of those epic (nearly immovable) floor stands such as those epically overbuilt Wenger stands (branded as a "Tuba Tamer"), I'm not interested in elevating my instruments off the floor via any lightweight/semi-lightweight and easily-collapsible devices.

I'm either setting my on it's bell (in a calculated-to-be safe out-of-the-way spot), I'm laying it horizontal on a table with it's back side pushed up against a wall), or I'm putting it into its (hard) case with the latches latched.




...and even the "Tuba Tamer" places THE MOST FRAGILE part of a tuba (again: its bell flair) right up where human beings' arms are carrying things.

[anadmai]

This is the stand I use in my practice room. If it's not being played..it's on the stand.. when I get home from rehearsal, the case goes in one room and the horn goes downstairs to my lair.

[2nd tenor]

Hercules make good products so one of their Tuba Stands will very likely be amongst the best available.

My personal preference is to stand the instrument on its bell with the main body to a wall, but after that, the instrument goes in its case. Well, that’s sort of the situation but I apply different rules to different places; when away from home it’s either on its bell next to my seat (with me sat next to it) or in its case (there are some clumsy folk around and I don’t want them anywhere near my Tuba), but at home the ideal situation (imho) is to have the Tuba out of the case, but in a safe place, and ready to play. It doesn’t happen much these days - though it ought to - but I like to leave my small Besson out in an unused bedroom, sat on its bell with the body to a wall. It’s maybe just me, but instruments locked away in their cases tend not to get played, but when I pass an instrument that’s out if it’s case it usually gets played for at least a couple of minutes - bits of practise, here and there, always seem to help.

Why don’t I use a stand? Well, stands can be good and water doesn’t drain into the valves when using one, but they cost money and whilst they’re (still) good I don’t think that they’re better than bell to the floor and the body to a wall. That said if I were seated somewhere where space was tight then a stand would be easier to use than having to find a spot to rest the bell.
Edit. As in the posts below the K&M twin leg stand - with it’s compact footprint - is a classic design (so it’s probably reasonable enough) and it would be my first thought for those tight space situations.

What’s the better option? imho I think that both are good so use what works for you.

As ever YMMV applies.

[Bassboner]

This is the stand I use in my practice room. If it's not being played..it's on the stand.. when I get home from rehearsal, the case goes in one room and the horn goes downstairs to my lair.

Keeps tuba low to the ground


I've seen a stand that I can't find now, but it was essentially a piece of plywood with a foot under it to angle it to put the center of gravity more over the center of the bell, and then a lip on the plywood that you slide the rim under to hold the bell down so it doesn't flip. Most compact tuba stand I've seen - slightly bigger than the diameter of the bell, and a total DIY project.

[arpthark]

This is the stand I use in my practice room. If it's not being played..it's on the stand.. when I get home from rehearsal, the case goes in one room and the horn goes downstairs to my lair.

Keeps tuba low to the ground


I've seen a stand that I can't find now, but it was essentially a piece of plywood with a foot under it to angle it to put the center of gravity more over the center of the bell, and then a lip on the plywood that you slide the rim under to hold the bell down so it doesn't flip. Most compact tuba stand I've seen - slightly bigger than the diameter of the bell, and a total DIY project.

Something like this (listed for euph but I know they have a tuba version as well):

https://www.baltimorebrasscompany.com/p ... stand.aspx

[Bassboner]

Something like this (listed for euph but I know they have a tuba version as well):

https://www.baltimorebrasscompany.com/p ... stand.aspx

Ah, yes. I was trying to put my CAD skills to use and you beat me to it.

zzz.png (116.58 KiB) Viewed 339625 times

[bloke]

Something like this (listed for euph but I know they have a tuba version as well):

https://www.baltimorebrasscompany.com/p ... stand.aspx

Ah, yes. I was trying to put my CAD skills to use and you beat me to it.

zzz.png

I have several of those, I've always taken them to use at sales displays. I've hauled them to gigs before, but it's additional gear...
I already have a special/collapsible (reinforced) seat that I use that to play my largest tuba...and (for tunes that I decide to play on F cimbasso) I've obviously got the cimbasso plus ITS stand.

Hey bloke, what makes you decide to play a tune on F cimbasso?

answer: When I church (or an orchestra or whomever) sends me several OBVIOUSLY written-for-tuba charts and one chart LABELED "tuba" that looks like this:

I would play this on F cimbasso...NO QUESTION.png (134.07 KiB) Viewed 339620 times

[anadmai]

I have one of those stands for my baritone. They're nice.

[ghmerrill]

I will only put my horn down on its bell if and only if there is zero traffic around said location.

I got to the point of always bringing my tuba floor stand with me. If there's room enough to put it on its bell, then there's room enough to put it on the floor stand (which generally is more stable and offers other advantages). Also ... in my experience the real threats are clarinet and trumpet players.

[prodigal]

This is the stand I use in my practice room. If it's not being played..it's on the stand.. when I get home from rehearsal, the case goes in one room and the horn goes downstairs to my lair.

Keeps tuba low to the ground


I've seen a stand that I can't find now, but it was essentially a piece of plywood with a foot under it to angle it to put the center of gravity more over the center of the bell, and then a lip on the plywood that you slide the rim under to hold the bell down so it doesn't flip. Most compact tuba stand I've seen - slightly bigger than the diameter of the bell, and a total DIY project.

Any links for these? I like it.

My school has one of the Wenger stand and play stands. No me gusto. (My old 186 doesn't even have the strap eyes, so as far as I'm concerned, she's sit and play only, especially with the LH 5th valve.)

Sax players are a definite threat, but watch out for trombone players late to rehearsal.

[prairieboy1]

The stand you described was sold through Baltimore Brass at one point. Check with them to see if they still stock them. Failing that, a competent woodworker should be able to make you one. Good Luck!

[bloke]

Those Wenger stands I showed that are industrial built appear on eBay every once in awhile.

stuff that has nothing to do with what you asked:
It took a little bit of adaptation, but with flathead large screws (so as the adjustment slides will clear the screws), I managed to adapt these to wall mount devices.

Little fold out floor stands that support tuba with the bells facing up (shown above)... Those scare the crap out of me, and I would never use one, regardless of whether it's German made or Chinese made.

Again, I set my tubas on their bells.

[arpthark]

I just balance mine carefully on the bottom bow.

Serious: I remember buying a tuba once that was advertised as never having been sat down on its bell. I think it was actually a Jin Bao 410/Miraphone 186 CC copy.

I think if you’re going to choose a tuba to baby or handle with kid gloves (or those white gloves that come with them), that might not be the one.

[prodigal]

I guess there is a beauty to "back in the case/trunk." The case that TimJackson shipped her to me in is a testament to back in the day when things were made well and EXTREMELY STURDILY TO LAST!!!! I love it, well, until I have to move it around in the basement, out comes the farm dolly from tractor supply. I'll play it then put it away.

I have a couch in the basement where we practice, if I'm alone, I tend to practice on both my horns off and on in a session. So one's in my lap, one's taking a nap on the couch, and switch.