Parts for tuning slide kicker

[harrell]

Hey y'all! I want to install a spring-loaded tuning slide pusher, similar to a euphonium tuning slide trigger, but in a straight line motion. I have tried doing this the manual way(aka. no spring help) and it requires too much work. I installed a rod from behind the first valve slide down to the tuning slide. I need the slide to stay pushed in most of the time and be pushed out quickly for certain notes. Any ideas on a source for parts for this?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/nCRmxhDzAwYrcjm46

[bloke]

Typically, those are going to have to be self fabricated unless it's Miraphone - where those people are so incredible that they will design and send parts that will fit their models.

I suspect you've not had previous experience doing this.

It typically takes X amount of time to install such a device, and 10X time to work with it until it's functional.

For me to agree to install stuff like this on other people's instruments, they need to be a really close friend to whom I owe some really serious favors.

What I'm emphasizing is that it requires a lot of incredible attention to detail (and then a great deal of further analysis, when attention to detail wasn't quite enough to get to the finish line)...which translates to a tremendous amount of time.

Trumpet spring triggers are challenging, but are child's play, as compared to tuba triggers, due to the vastly smaller amount of surface area, length of extension, and (thus) the vastly smaller amount of precision required for trumpet triggers to function as they are needed to function.

[the elephant]

Jason, your links point to the email sign-in page for your employer. If you have photos, email them to me, and I'll host and post them.

And I agree with Joe. You will likely have to fabricate this in your own shop. If you need something specific, I can search my parts bins and maybe drive down to meet you. We could have lunch, too.

Hope your work on the big horn is paying off now. I want to play it (and this F tuba) someday. Maybe at band this June? (If he does it this year, that is. I have not yet heard anything.)

[bloke]

I want to make sure that my previous response was not interpreted as being delivered in a snooty or elitist nor an "I'm an amazing talent with amazing abilities" tone.

The last thing I installed (in this specific genre) for someone was a spring return #1 slide trigger for a Miraphone 184 B flat.

This was an old instrument that had a missing a rotor, a very close friend bought it for a very low price, they paid me to straighten it all out and fit a new rotor to it (not the easiest thing, but something I can do), and a couple of years later they wanted a #1 slide trigger.

As this is a common model, I knew that Miraphone would have a pattern for a trigger like this saved back from when someone ordered one in the past - and they did, so I bought the parts pre-built from them. They only left one or two and places for me to silver braze, depending on the preferred hand position.

The problem involves getting the old slide tubes - that were plenty good enough for pulling out a certain place and leaving them there yet had been bumped around over the years - so as all four tubes were perfectly dent free, perfectly round and the pairs of tubes were perfectly happy with each other... Then getting those two pairs of tubes perfectly parallel and perfectly coplanar.

It's quite one thing to make a slide work well enough to operate by hand quickly, but a spring return is not nearly as strong as a human hand, it requires remarkable precision, as well as some je ne sais quoi factors.

[the elephant]

You're good, man. I am friends with Jason and was just offering to help as a way of sneaking in a visit. (We rarely see each other these days,)

[harrell]

Link to photos should be fixed now.

Joe, I totally get what you're saying. You are busy going from one thing to the next and taking on a new project would just bog you down even further. I work a full time job and have two or sometimes three part time jobs. No offense taken. I know this will be a trial and error project. What I am fishing for here is a some direction for parts that may be used in the construction of this gadget. Perhaps I can steal some premade parts and hobble them together to make something that will work for this project. I don't have a bunch of spare parts lying around as I haven't been repairing/building long enough yet to have amassed a collection to pull from. I usually fix school horns and can just order replacement parts from Allied or Yamaha, etc.

Wade, thanks. I do want to come visit your shop and learn some things from you. We can talk.

Thanks to both of you.

I am starting my journey into horn configuration and customization. I think horn is a good project horn to tinker on. The intonation is questionable. This BMB F tuba has the 5th valve built into the 4th valve tubing circuit. It is a bit stuffy when the 5th valve is used. I can't tell if the reason is that it is in the 4th or if the 5th itself is just stuffy. I'm no expert. I would like to remove the 5th and put it after the 4th independently. That is going to be my first "big boy" tuba project.

Jason

[bloke]

I don't know if your BMB F tuba is like one that I played years ago that belonged to Andy Smith, but - after playing it for a couple of minutes - what occurred to me was that all of the circuit lengths were not enough shorter on Andy's compared to the circuit lengths of the sister E flat version. It seemed to me as though every single circuit on the F version was too long.. again, I'm referring to Andy's, because that's the only one I've really ever played - and quite a few years ago.

As far as trigger parts are concerned, something I noticed about factory made triggers are that they are usually way overbuilt.
(I sort of view those Miraphone parts that I was sent for the 184 as way over built, which added even more important to everything being absolutely perfect for it to work).
1/4 in diameter nickel brass really isn't required for most triggers.
If everything is built really well aligned fitted and balanced, 3/16 inch yellow brass is often plenty stout, and still might end up being overbuilt. Also realize that the action rod portion of the mechanism doesn't need to be made out of that big yellow brass or nickel brass material. The thruster can be something like a 3 mm steel rod with threads on both ends to accept links.
The less bulky the mechanism, the less strong the return spring needs to be.

[the elephant]

I would like to remove the 5th and put it after the 4th independently. That is going to be my first "big boy" tuba project.

I will enjoy your write-up and photos of this.

[harrell]

I bought this tuba from Sam Gnagey. But I think you are onto something. I think most of the slides are too long, which is why the tuning slide needs to be in all the way on most notes. The fundamental F is sharp this way, which would be one of the notes that need to be pushed out roughly an inch. The horn sounds good and has a big, bassy CC-like sound. I think if I can get the intonation issues dealt with, it will be a great horn. Now if I had about $12k, I would just buy a fancy new F that was perfect right out of the box.

JH