Trip to Dillon Music 1/3/26: reviews and such

[arpthark]

I was traveling back from PA and my route took me right by Woodbridge, so I decided to make a stop and check out their inventory. Matt wasn't in, but the rest of the staff was helpful. You do still need to call and reserve an appointment for play testing. I called about an hour ahead and they said they weren't busy and to stop by, but by the time I made it there, they were pretty swamped with flute, trumpet, trombone and one other tuba customer.

Here's what I tried and my takeaways, for what they're worth (in their tiny practice rooms). I only had about an hour.

Hirsbrunner HB-50 "Yorkbrunner" CC https://www.dillonmusic.com/used-hirsbr ... =115151390

Great, huge, sound, fun to play. Player feedback on these big 6/4 tubas is really satisfying. I definitely got the sense that articulations, even in that small practice room, were a bit nebulous. Intonation-wise, Eb and Ab were both about 20c+ flat for me, and bottom line G was a bit saggy. Definitely not the worst 6/4 tuba, intonation-wise, and the workmanship is obviously very good, but I think the $18,000 price tag may be a bit of a relic of the time when these were receiving "Rolls Royce" billing. The low range was not easy for me to evoke the sounds I was expecting -- low G and F took some finessing.

Eastman 836 6/4 CC https://www.dillonmusic.com/demo-eastma ... =115983975

This horn is a bit smaller than the Yorkbrunner and was a lot easier to play. I also found intonation and response to be a lot better, nearly point-and-shoot. As far as 6/4 tubas go, this one was pretty darn easy to play, with the exception of the low G-F (similar to the Yorkbrunner... hard to invoke). I owned an 832 and workmanship seemed on-par with that one; slides and valves and everything seemed to be good. Overall, if I were looking to buy a 6/4 tuba, I would be seriously looking at these. I can see now why they are so popular. At half the price of the Yorkbrunner, this would be a no-brainer decision for me, were I in the market.

Eastman 834 5/4 CC https://www.dillonmusic.com/demo-eastma ... =114635485

This is a demo model of the new Eastman 5/4 CC. I found the response and sound to be more Thor-like (duh) than the 836, and the low range response was much better, and it was fun to play. That said, there were some intonation quirks that wouldn't exactly be deal-breakers but were definitely a little squirrelly. This one didn't really do it for me and I didn't play it for long.

Miraphone 188 CC, yellow brass https://www.dillonmusic.com/miraphone-m ... d=19185937

Miraphone quality never ceases to disappoint. This was the best CC tuba I played there. Effortless response and intonation, lightning-fast rotors, a true delight to play. The only quibble with this model is that low range response tends to be a little tight, but these are highly sought after and not often resold for a reason.

Miraphone Hagen 495 BBb https://www.dillonmusic.com/miraphone-m ... d=19187281

This one was nice, too. I was really impressed by the evennness of response on it as you descend into the low register. Didn't check it against a tuner but I wanted to play at least one BBb tuba while I was there, and it sounded good to me, and I also liked the size of the horn. Seemed like a large 4/4, small 5/4 instrument.

Eastman 864 F tuba https://www.dillonmusic.com/demo-eastma ... =116119629

I liked this F tuba a lot. It reminded me a lot of my Symphonie, but with a little less sparkle in the sound. I was able to get around easily on it, response seemed pretty good. It was not as effortless in the higher register as a Symphonie and a bit pitchy around high Eb/D above the staff.

John Packer JP279 F tuba (Yamaha 621 F clone) https://www.dillonmusic.com/used-john-p ... =115983843

This played pretty much exactly like a YFB-621, so if you like that, you will like this. I owned a "Yamaclone" F purchased directly from Jin Bao a couple years ago, and this one has much better workmanship and especially better fifth valve linkage than that one. Fun little tubas.

Willson 3400 TA 3+1 compensating Eb https://www.dillonmusic.com/used-willso ... =115749478

This was the best horn that I played there. Awesome response, great sound. Super fun to play and so easy to get around on, very facile. The agility of a bass tuba and the sound of a small contrabass tuba would make this super appealing to me if I only wanted to have one do-it-all tuba. The only caveats about this model are A) it is quite heavy and B) response of the B natural / C above the staff was a bit squirrelly (kind of like high Ab on old Kalisons if anyone is familiar with that model). It took some persistence to get it to speak properly. That said, everything else about it was awesome. I'd love to play one of the Marty Erickson models but they didn't have one in stock that I saw.

[Sousaswag]

I remember hearing somewhere that a lot of those Yorkbrunners/HB piston 4/4’s can benefit from a 3rd slide cut. My HB2P was just fine in that department, but YMMV. This early one may just have been built too long.

$18K… Optimistic, especially with the current inflated York copy market, but you do at least know you’re getting a quality built instrument. I think you’re right, the price is probably reflecting reputation rather than anything else.

That Willson - Intriguing. I’ve now seen two of those for sale in the last 6 months or so. I love that Willsons are finally getting some market share here. Particularly their Eb’s, which I think are the best ones out there.

[arpthark]

I believe the compensating Eb has the same bugle and bell as the front action 5v model. It is an awesome horn. Probably still sitting because of the 3+1 layout.

[bloke]

Thanks.
Those reviews were way more concise and useful than most I've read online.

I realize that - when I say this - people are skeptical, because my words are coming from someone who sells, and therefore I have a conflict of interest.

More than one factory in China makes copies of the same popular name brand models of instruments.

There are many musical instrument factories in China and many brass instrument factories in China.

Further - as I have stated before, I have tried to go around John Packer and purchase direct from the factory that makes a whole bunch of their brass instruments. Those instruments had issues that I had to address before I could sell them. The fit of the inside to outside slides was just as good and the fit of the valves to the casings was just as good, but the accuracy and alignment of assembly was not as good, and sometimes the length of the instrument wasn't quite right. JP's standards are stringent, which is why - when I don't have something of theirs in stock - I can drop ship an instrument from the warehouse with confidence. Back when I sold American make instruments out of our brick and mortar store which we closed around two decades ago, I would never think of drop-shipping an instrument from the factory or warehouse to someone without first looking at it myself, but I can do that with JP... and the American instruments situation has done anything but improved.

Tuba-wise, it's widely known that another brand in China offers a whole bunch more models (perhaps a recently-dismissed American employee of the company was responsible for that, and to that person's credit) and that JP's tuba offerings lean somewhat towards the UK market, but they do offer THREE really well made F tubas, I really love their compact rotary B flat, and their euphoniums are so popular that production barely keeps up with demand. I like the new JP 621 style F tuba offering, btw.

Frankly, I'd like to see JP offer a really nice-playing 5/4 rotary C instrument - built to the same standards as all of their other top-line instruments. . (IMO, the six quarter piston C market is flooded with offerings, and the 6/4 C instruments seem - ?? - to be offered up for sale used more often than they are bought new.)

comment on a previous response to the original post:
As far as the Swiss-design C tubas are concerned, both the 4/4 and 6/4 C instruments suffer from the 2-3 valve combination serious tuning anomaly. My own 6/4+ B-flat instrument features a slightly saggy fourth partial 2-3 F sharp and I barely saggy C sharp below that, but - even if I didn't have a little device that I installed to easily mechanically remedy that on the fly, they're both close enough to favor with the mouth, whereas those Swiss-design C-instruments simply are not (at least not in my experience).

I owned one of those (4/4) Swiss instruments for about a year (decades ago) and I did cut the third valve circuit, in order to tune the really saggy third partial E flat, but it left the low A flat (a pitch called for just as often) treacherously sharp (so the best I could do with the slide was to split the difference which wasn't particularly satisfying), and that slide is not easily accessible on the fly. Oddly, the other Swiss brand of C tuba (at least the model that has been offered by that company for years and years, and is more like 5/4+ size), features the opposite problem with the D sharp / E flat, in that it's quite sharp.

Truth be told, it's very common for all brass instruments to feature this particular anomaly on this particular partial with this particular valve combination, but most brass instruments' anomaly in this regard is not that severe. I suspect the acquirer of that Swiss tooling could reduce the severity of the problem using one of those computer programs that optimizes the open bugle taper combined with cylindrical tubing to optimize intonation, in that it reduces or averages out anomalies.

[Sousaswag]

I believe the compensating Eb has the same bugle and bell as the front action 5v model. It is an awesome horn. Probably still sitting because of the 3+1 layout.

Some brass band/brass band player will love that instrument. Truth be told, I prefer the front piston designs, but will never tell anybody that 3+1 is bad. I think many of those Eb’s are some of the most point and shoot tubas out there.

Being based on the 3400 bugle would explain why it looks… Different from your standard Besson design. Not “bad” but certainly different.

[bloke]

Years ago I bought sold a Willson made 3+1 compensating E-flat tuba that was profiled more like an F tuba.
Tuning was pretty good. I kind of liked it.
It had to have been made decades ago.

[bort2.0]

Don't look at the 188 price...
Don't look at the 188 price...
Don't look at the 188 price...

...ouch.

Guess that's not happening for me any time

[je]

I believe the compensating Eb has the same bugle and bell as the front action 5v model. It is an awesome horn. Probably still sitting because of the 3+1 layout.

Some brass band/brass band player will love that instrument. Truth be told, I prefer the front piston designs, but will never tell anybody that 3+1 is bad. I think many of those Eb’s are some of the most point and shoot tubas out there.

Being based on the 3400 bugle would explain why it looks… Different from your standard Besson design. Not “bad” but certainly different.

According to the Willson website, the 3400 TA-4 uses a 480mm bell (as do the rotary valve models), whereas the 3400 FA-5 (Erickson model) bell is 450mm, and the 3400S FA-5 (Capet model) bell is 425mm. To my eyes all of the tubas with 480mm bells look a bit odd.

Last summer I play-tested a 3400 TA-4 and a 3400S FA-5 back to back. To my surprise I didn't care for the TA-4. Memory of its tone has faded, but I recall it being a bit darker than I was hoping for (subjectively sterile, lacking sweetness). But I didn't spend much time with it because it had intonation issues, most critical being that the 4th valve circuit seemed a bit too long. I've never played a Besson EE♭, but I have a Yamaha YEB-632IIS that plays wonderfully, and the TA-4 would merely be adequate in comparison, even were there no intonation issues.

One minor annoyance with the Yamaha is that an extra manipulation is necessary to periodically empty water from a low point in the 4th valve circuit that lacks a water key. Bessons appear even worse in that they require a full rotation. In contrast Willsons put the extra tubing above the valves, completely eliminating the extra low point. It seems like a nice refinement in principle. And the slightly larger bore relative to Besson/Yamaha also interested me, but in combination with the ~19" bell may explain why the tone was too dark for my ears. (Miraphone also uses a larger bore for its 3+1 models, so Willson isn't alone in this choice.)

In contrast, the FA-5 had a gorgeous tone (brighter, sweeter) with no intonation quirks. Play-testing it was a gut punch because I went in looking for a possible replacement for the Yamaha 3+1, and instead added a front-action EE♭ tuba that sounded too beautiful to leave behind.

[tubamarc8891]

I remember hearing somewhere that a lot of those Yorkbrunners/HB piston 4/4’s can benefit from a 3rd slide cut. My HB2P was just fine in that department, but YMMV. This early one may just have been built too long.

$18K… Optimistic, especially with the current inflated York copy market, but you do at least know you’re getting a quality built instrument. I think you’re right, the price is probably reflecting reputation rather than anything else.

That Willson - Intriguing. I’ve now seen two of those for sale in the last 6 months or so. I love that Willsons are finally getting some market share here. Particularly their Eb’s, which I think are the best ones out there.

A Yorkbrunner is my current main work axe. We have a toxic relationship. Don't ask.

In my opinion they have the best sound of the 6/4 York-style CC tubas but there's no universe where anyone should pay more than $10-12k for one. Way too many quirks and playability issues. Especially when you can get the Adams version used for around the price they're asking for which is a MASSIVE upgrade to the Yorkbrunner.

[Sousaswag]

I remember hearing somewhere that a lot of those Yorkbrunners/HB piston 4/4’s can benefit from a 3rd slide cut. My HB2P was just fine in that department, but YMMV. This early one may just have been built too long.

$18K… Optimistic, especially with the current inflated York copy market, but you do at least know you’re getting a quality built instrument. I think you’re right, the price is probably reflecting reputation rather than anything else.

That Willson - Intriguing. I’ve now seen two of those for sale in the last 6 months or so. I love that Willsons are finally getting some market share here. Particularly their Eb’s, which I think are the best ones out there.

A Yorkbrunner is my current main work axe. We have a toxic relationship. Don't ask.

In my opinion they have the best sound of the 6/4 York-style CC tubas but there's no universe where anyone should pay more than $10-12k for one. Way too many quirks and playability issues. Especially when you can get the Adams version used for around that price (or less) which is a MASSIVE upgrade to the Yorkbrunner.

Agreed with your points - Unfortunately, I just don’t think there’s any way someone would let one of these go for that price range because of the way they were marketed when they were still being made.

Regarding Adams - I think I played one at Buddy Roger’s that was brand new… It was good, but wildly expensive. Duh, it was brand new. I didn’t check it with a tuner at all, but yeah, it certainly wasn’t Yorkbrunner quirky.

All that to say, if one wants to purchase a Yorkbrunner, hopefully they know exactly what they’re getting, and are okay with the work required to make that sound.

[bloke]

I sound like a broken record but the Yamaha 826 is the ,$h!t if someone's going to play a 6/4 that's C length with a 3/4 inch bore.
I'd wager that most people have never played one.

Were I Yamaha, I wouldn't let one sit around all day in an elephant room.

They cost half of the price of the best bassoons made, and a small fraction of a serious fiddle price.

The fifth partial is somewhat flat with the 826, but I could manage to push the E up in tune without mashing any buttons.