What to do with my ancient Eb Bass Saxhorn?

[TxTx]

I played tuba all through junior high and high school, all on rented school hours, and I figured I was done with the tuba when I graduated. However a few years after later I found a tuba for $150 in a pawn shop, and bought it.

The horn turned out to be a really old French 3 valve Eb bass saxhorn, made by A Lecomte in Paris, and imported by Root Music in Chicago. From what little I can find on the internet about the manufacturer the horn is a little older than 1890. It is very light at just under 10 pounds, with a 12” bell and about 1/2” bore. Valves and slides all worked fine. Almost no dents. No lacquer left to speak of, so its finish is a well patinad brass, and you can see a lot of the seams in the larger sections. Some red spots here and there, and I had to get a leak in the lead pipe patched about 20-odd years ago. Pic of me and the horn attached.

I didn’t do much other than honk on it for New Years for the longest time, but I started playing it some with my world music band about 10 years ago. It however had some quirks that made it a challenge to play, so over time I migrated to more modern and way better horns.

One of the weird things about the horn is that the two open Eb’s below the staff and the related fingered notes want to sit about 1/2 step flat vs the rest of the horn, unless you really lip them up, at point their resonance suffers some. Doable with practice, but a challenge. Mostly I just avoided that part of the range!

The other thing about the horn is I ended up with one valve that was draggy, and I took it to a local shop who said they would do what they could. What they did was hone all the valves to the point where they moved easy, but they also leaked badly we enough the horn is toast. I should’ve made a bigger deal out of that than I did at the time, but I’d moved on to another horn by then.

So at this point it isn’t particularly playable, and I totally don’t need it. I am sure the valves could be overhauled but there’s the weird intonation. Having learned a little more about mouthpieces in recent years, thanks mainly to this site, it might be that a very different mouthpiece might help some with the intonation, but there is also the red rot. I do dabble some with metal work so I pondered overhauling the valves myself, but it’d be some years before I ever got to it. And the world would be better off if I spent that time practicing.

Wondering if I should:
- sell it for scrap or for parts?
- donate it to a museum?
- keep it and maybe tinker with the valves in a few years?
- any other bright ideas?

Thanks,

Eric

[2nd tenor]

As no one else has responded ….

I like small thee valve Eb Tubas but in this case it’s an old and well worn instrument, of questionable design, that didn’t cost you that much so you’ve probably had your monies worth out of it. I’m inclined to think you should right-off this Tuba; so when the time is right then give it away to: a museum, some enthusiast, or the scrap man. Keep the mouthpiece and maybe invest in a similar instrument that’s a better match for your needs

Thicker oil can help with slack valves and a Tuba that has little value - but plays adequately - is nice to have for outdoor use.

Technicians time is expensive and on this instrument it’s unlikely to give a worthwhile return. Your time might be free, but (assuming you can do the work) on this instrument it’ll likely be wasted.

Good luck and my apologias for being so brutal.

[Craig F]

I would donate it to a museum. Other than the valves it's in good shape, perfect museum piece.

[gocsick]

I'd keep it around for tuba Christmas. Most of the time there is the weirdo section with a few G contras, a Helicon or two, maybe a Cimbasso or ophicleide , and the antique relics. It's always my favorite place to sit.

[humBell]

Have you seen the movie Amelie?
The gnome...

[scottw]

I played tuba all through junior high and high school, all on rented school hours, and I figured I was done with the tuba when I graduated. However a few years after later I found a tuba for $150 in a pawn shop, and bought it.

The horn turned out to be a really old French 3 valve Eb bass saxhorn, made by A Lecomte in Paris, and imported by Root Music in Chicago. From what little I can find on the internet about the manufacturer the horn is a little older than 1890. It is very light at just under 10 pounds, with a 12” bell and about 1/2” bore. Valves and slides all worked fine. Almost no dents. No lacquer left to speak of, so its finish is a well patinad brass, and you can see a lot of the seams in the larger sections. Some red spots here and there, and I had to get a leak in the lead pipe patched about 20-odd years ago. Pic of me and the horn attached.

I didn’t do much other than honk on it for New Years for the longest time, but I started playing it some with my world music band about 10 years ago. It however had some quirks that made it a challenge to play, so over time I migrated to more modern and way better horns.

One of the weird things about the horn is that the two open Eb’s below the staff and the related fingered notes want to sit about 1/2 step flat vs the rest of the horn, unless you really lip them up, at point their resonance suffers some. Doable with practice, but a challenge. Mostly I just avoided that part of the range!

The other thing about the horn is I ended up with one valve that was draggy, and I took it to a local shop who said they would do what they could. What they did was hone all the valves to the point where they moved easy, but they also leaked badly we enough the horn is toast. I should’ve made a bigger deal out of that than I did at the time, but I’d moved on to another horn by then.

So at this point it isn’t particularly playable, and I totally don’t need it. I am sure the valves could be overhauled but there’s the weird intonation. Having learned a little more about mouthpieces in recent years, thanks mainly to this site, it might be that a very different mouthpiece might help some with the intonation, but there is also the red rot. I do dabble some with metal work so I pondered overhauling the valves myself, but it’d be some years before I ever got to it. And the world would be better off if I spent that time practicing.

Wondering if I should:
- sell it for scrap or for parts?
- donate it to a museum?
- keep it and maybe tinker with the valves in a few years?
- any other bright ideas?

Thanks,

Eric

These vintage horns--very probably not a saxhorn,btw--are very mouthpiece-dependent. Most are not good at A-440, being built as a high- or low-pitch instrument, so some modification is usually needed for intonation issues. If it has a nice, open sound, there is a reasonable chance that it can be "fixed". Not much value, though, in a 3-valve, very mellow, horn unless you play it in a 19th century band. It is not Civil War era, which would give it extra monetary value, nor a horn likely to be prized by a collector. As they say, it is what it is.
scottw

[arpthark]

very probably not a saxhorn,btw

Here is a very similar model in the Lecomte 1910 catalogue, where it is listed as a contrabass saxhorn in Eb:

[scottw]

Point taken. My guess is that the company is still trading on the saxhorn marketing even as late as 1890-ish.
scottw

[ghmerrill]

These vintage horns--very probably not a saxhorn,btw--are very mouthpiece-dependent. Most are not good at A-440, being built as a high- or low-pitch instrument, so some modification is usually needed for intonation issues.

It sounds like it may simply be low pitch. Of course WHICH low pitch will require some effort to determine. My 1924 Buescher Eb tuba was at least explicitly labeled as "low pitch" (on the back of the 2nd valve: "LP"). A lot of effort went into determining that it was A=435. I cut it down (not a task for the timid).

Even then, it was a bit wonky, and it wanted a "small European shank" tuba mouthpiece. After several years of living with this, I finally capitulated and replaced the receiver with a standard US tuba shank receiver. That made a significant difference, and I use a Kelly 25 mouthpiece with it. The intonation is still not exactly perfect, but I rigged a kind of "kick slide" arrangement (well, just a push/pull kind of rod/lever) for the 3rd valve, vented the valve, and that helps a lot. The pistons look worn, but in fact only the 3rd valve has a very minor leak. So it's perfectly playable (very good "ghost notes" -- though never the best tuba on the planet). I don't play it much any more, but for a while I was playing it quite successfully in a community band and in Tuba Christmas events.

Incidentally ... as part of my journey with this horn, I acquired a shank adapter from Matt Walters at Dillon (I think it may be the last one of these he made). If anyone is interested in this (I can't recommend it as a permanent solution -- receiver replacement is just too easy), let me know.

[Mark E. Chachich]

Of all of the options, please do not sell it for scrap or for parts.

All of these that were listed are good options:
- donate it to a museum
- keep it and maybe tinker with the valves in a few years

I also like the suggestion to bring it to Tuba Christmas.
At the Bel Air Maryland Tuba Christmas we have someone who brings a serpent.

best,
Mark

[2nd tenor]

Of all of the options, please do not sell it for scrap or for parts.

All of these that were listed are good options:
- donate it to a museum
- keep it and maybe tinker with the valves in a few years

I also like the suggestion to bring it to Tuba Christmas.
At the Bel Air Maryland Tuba Christmas we have someone who brings a serpent.

best,
Mark

I suggest that another worthy option is to let another enthusiast buy / have the instrument on the understanding that they’ll put it into better working order and then give it some use. That’d be better, imho, than it gathering dust and it spreads a bit of Tuba joy.

Scraping it for parts sounds awful, but sometimes an instrument scrapped for parts allows several others (that would otherwise have remained dead) to be repaired and live again.

[ghmerrill]

Scraping it for parts sounds awful, but sometimes an instrument scrapped for parts allows several others (that would otherwise have remained dead) to be repaired and live again.

It sounds awful only if there's some reasonable chance of putting it back into playing condition and this is feasible in terms of the cost and time frame. Otherwise, I submit it's always better to have one functioning tuba than n unusable tubas, for any non-zero value of n.

[TxTx]

I suggest that another worthy option is to let another enthusiast buy / have the instrument on the understanding that they’ll put it into better working order and then give it some use. That’d be better, imho, than it gathering dust and it spreads a bit of Tuba joy.

That’s a good suggestion and I’m certainly open to spreading some Tuba Joy (tm). Anyone the least bit interested in taking this one on?

Eric

[2nd tenor]

Scraping it for parts sounds awful, but sometimes an instrument scrapped for parts allows several others (that would otherwise have remained dead) to be repaired and live again.

It sounds awful only if there's some reasonable chance of putting it back into playing condition and this is feasible in terms of the cost and time frame. Otherwise, I submit it's always better to have one functioning tuba than n unusable tubas, for any non-zero value of n.

Yes, to my mind at least, the object is to extract what is useful from the situation; as almost ever there are usually multiple ways to usefully go forwards - mostly we don’t need the best way forward we just need a better / good way forward that works for us. Ultimately when spare parts are unavailable then similar but also un-working items are stripped for replacement parts that are then fitted to other items to get them working again (see your local car scrap yard), and here on this forum it’s not uncommon to hear of Tubas made from the parts of other Tubas - sometimes of the same make and model and sometimes not.

Anyone the least bit interested in taking this one on?

Eric

I hope that somebody takes up the offer and gets some use from the instrument.