a suggestion to choir directors (ie. NOT preaching to the choir)

[bloke]

Dear choirmasters,
There's no need (at least, as far as we instrumentalists are concerned) to scold your choir at their dress rehearsal.
We've all heard many choirs, so there is a reasonably good chance that your choir - to us - sounds like "a choir", and our only desire is to do our jobs (and do them very well) for you.
Scolding your choir in front of us only ends up consuming time and promoting universal discomfort.

[Schlitzz]

K, well, if the choir is singing,"Away in a major", scolding them, should have an a replacing the o.

[windshieldbug]

K, well, if the choir is singing,"Away in a major", scolding them, should have an a replacing the o.

scalding them!?

[Schlitzz]

K, well, if the choir is singing,"Away in a major", scolding them, should have an a replacing the o.

scalding them!?

Yes, they aren't hitting the notes as banged out on the piano. Much worse when backed by an ensemble. These people can't read music, they read lyrics. Those large books they read out of have large type lyrics. Major, instead of manger. They need a good hot shower. Flush the toilet. Should get their attention.

[bloke]

By the dress rehearsal, they're singing is good as they're going to.
Just let them get accustomed to hearing the instruments instead of the piano.

If the church wants them to sing better, they should consider paying them, and firing the ones that aren't very good.
That's why the hired instrumentalists play better than some choirs sing.

Preachers get paid, even though so many of their homilies and sermons are dreadful, and even though they hang around the church or at home instead of visiting the sick.

[catgrowlB]

What gets me is when a church hires an essentially chamber orchestra -- with strings, woodwinds, brass -- along with their small percussion section and keyboards in front of their choir for a 'Christmas cantata'. They then have the orchestra play considerably softer than the dynamics marked in the parts so as not to cover up the weak voices of the elderly choir members who have small microphones pointed at them to be amplified.

I just finished one of those gigs earlier today. It was overall fun, but could be more enjoyable if we were able to play out like the music calls for. A couple more Christmas gigs upcoming...

'Tis the season....

[bloke]

I hear you.

I've played my share of those, but I don't know why (maybe, those churches don't have much money these days - at least in the south?) but more often I've been playing at churches that have really strong voices and seem really prepared.

If I have a conflict one of these years down at "the crossroads" with that astonishing gospel choir associated with that Community College in the Mississippi delta, I'll suggest you as a sub. You'll be able to play as loud as you want to...
They always schedule it on a Monday (during the Christmas season) to make sure the musicians that they want to be available are likely to be available.

That huge Presbyterian church in Memphis (which broke off with the USA sect before the takeover deadline quite a few years ago)... Same goes for them. They put out some sound, but - even so - they have those microphones hanging from wires.

The really good paying Episcopal Church that hires me several times a year... They sing well and hire two or three ringers, but they're not particularly loud, and there are not very many of them... so all they ever hire is a brass quintet and - of course - we are not mic'ed... but they aren't either.

I've lost a couple of annual xmas gigs to covid downsizing...whatever.

I have spoken before of Dr Leo Davis (whose retirement job is now playing organ at the gigantic church mentioned above) who used to be the choir director at an amazing church in Memphis called Mississippi Boulevard Christian Church. They were basically an enormous black gospel choir, but could do everything from Renaissance to spirituals, and everything in between, and do it all just right. Now THAT was a choir that could put out some sound. Leo would hire a big orchestra every year, and bring in some gospel stars. Since he retired and is playing organ at the other church (basically a "white" church, though that church is really trying to bring in a lot of new black congregants), I haven't heard anything about what's going on over at Mississippi Boulevard. Dr. Leo's keyboard and pedal technique on the organ - well into his 70s - is every bit as good as his choir directing talents.

If I didn't have a conflict and somebody asked me to come play for free at one of those small churches with a small choir, I would say "yes", and - sure - show up for a rehearsal... I would also be glad/delighted to show up at the Memphis TubaChristmas, were I not concerned about gunplay or my car being broken into or stolen... I used to do that event every year, and - if I had a gig on the same evening that finished up just in time - I would literally run from my parked car to the venue to do it. Things have changed.

[opus37]

I have wariness for choir directors who try to direct a band or orchestra. For most bands we need the director to provide the beat and help with some entrances. Of course, managing holds and breaks. What choir directors do is direct the music which is not helpful and distracting.

OK, end of rant.

[Three Valves]

Saw Seraph Brass and Choral Society perform at the National Cathedral again this year.

When there were a lot of no shows, they encouraged us in the peanut gallery to move forward.

Maybe to look better on camera?

Well, I appreciated it!

[C J]

I have wariness for choir directors who try to direct a band or orchestra. For most bands we need the director to provide the beat and help with some entrances. Of course, managing holds and breaks. What choir directors do is direct the music which is not helpful and distracting.

OK, end of rant.

And I love the opposite, last Saturday we played Poulenc's Gloria, and the choir conductor didn't miss a bar and also didn't miss a entrance.

Hannah, you were great. Thank you.

[bloke]

Unnamed, but I recently worked with a really amazing choir whereby the choir director was constantly turning the beat around, but obviously they were taught the pieces by rote and the patterns really didn't matter to them.
It sort of mattered to us, because we came in for the dress rehearsal, had never heard the pieces and the pieces were long and complicated... Exercising tact, we started writing in cues, whatever.

[1 Ton Tommy]

I find choral directors to be annoying when directing the orchestra and choir. Clearly, I'm not alone. Playing tuba, we need to know where 1 is. Waiting for the sopranos to finish a phrase late at the end of 16 bars out is torture. Please use a baton. And please have the stage lighting not back-light the conductor.

What else is annoying is when the choir is not singing from the same arrangement as the orchestra. "Close enough, same key" doesn't cut it. I made an exposed bass trombone entrance up an octave and on trumpet -- and the tenors wern't there!... They have the same figure about 12 bars later. On our conductor's score, which includes the vocals, I'm unison with the tenors. So the whole Hallulja chorus sounds like an amazing riot of counterpoint and If I lose count anywhere I'm done for.

In rehearsal the conductor used two scores, which I thought was odd. We had one rehearsal with the choir then the dress. It sounded chaotic but I read that Proust's arrangement uses counterpoint so I counted hard and made my entrances. But by the second performance something is amiss in my head. So:

Second night I lay out on the bass trombone solo and pick up with the first trumpet on the hallelujas till I get in sync again on the bass bone part. All is well. Nobody but me and the 1st trumpet noticed. Similar thing happened to her and she's happy for the support. She said, "Last night I played it as written and there was nobody else there. No clarinets, nobody. Good to hear you chime in."

The show must go on.

[bloke]

Experience/musicianship/musical awareness typically define how much direction hired instrumentalists actually require.

The highest-paying churches typically feature the most competent choirmasters, which defines that the first call musicians (who typically can make it though a piece with the worst direction) often end up working at the churches were there is the best direction, and - the farther down the line instrumentalists are on a call list - the more likely they end up playing under choirmasters who offer less-clear direction, yet those instrumentalists require the best direction.

bloke "ironic?"

[1 Ton Tommy]

I think in our case there is tension between the orchestra conductor and the choir master who actually calls the shots. In the pieces the orchestra does solo there's no problem, not for choice of music nor execution. It's when a 40-piece orchestra is accompanying a 60 piece choir conducted by the choir master, who chose the pieces, that the real problems arise. Some pieces are better accompanied by a miced piano than a full orchestra. And, to be clear, some were.

[tclements]

I have ONE suggestion: LEARN HOW TO CONDUCT

Tony "Who has played for TOO MANY crappy choir conductors" Clements

With thanks to Rick Denny

[bloke]

Quite a few years ago for a few years I had a regular Sunday job at a megachurch. The sanctuary was round and almost large enough to be a basketball arena.
The choir director was a great singer and actually formerly a professional lounge singer. He conducted about like somebody who fronts a small combo, but he knew what he wanted, he knew how to get it, he knew who to hire to play instruments, and his conducting was utilitarian and not patterned.
The only person who complained about the conducting was a trumpet player in the orchestra who went to that church, was in charge of the instrumentalists, and was jealous for the choir directors job. None of the other hired musicians had any problem with it.