Where and what to order for parts for 5th valve add to YEB 321

[Wilco]

Hi, I have seen some pictures of custom jobs. Is there a certain rotor with slide legs to be ordered? I will have the work done by a very good repair tech in Germany, if I know where to get the rights parts.... The lever etc will probably no problem...

With kind regards,
Wilco
The Netherlands

[bloke]

Regardless of what continent and what country, it might be easier to find a model 381 to purchase and sell your 321. (??)

[Wilco]

You might be right, but in Europe it would be very hard to find a 381. And I got this one for a bargain, so there is a lot of room for customization. And customization is cool!

[Wilco]

Stil there is (is there?) a solution for the somewhat sharp 2 + 4 valve combos, right? And a halve step valve will not be enough for the low E?

[LeMark]

an independent long whole step 5th valve used with the fingering combination 2-3-5 is a nice solution for a sharp 2-4

[Wilco]

Yes it is, and that is different from the 381 design (that’s a dependent 5th valve). Are the real life examples (photo’s) of independent 5th valves on 321’s?

[bloke]

Stil there is (is there?) a solution for the somewhat sharp 2 + 4 valve combos, right? And a halve step valve will not be enough for the low E?

The last time I bought and flipped a 381, I elongated the 5th circuit to the B-flat wholetone length...but whatever on that.

[LeMark]

Yes it is, and that is different from the 381 design (that’s a dependent 5th valve). Are the real life examples (photo’s) of independent 5th valves on 321’s?

Yeah that was a dumb design choice. Are there any shops or craftsmen near you that could handle the project

[Wilco]

Yes it is, and that is different from the 381 design (that’s a dependent 5th valve). Are the real life examples (photo’s) of independent 5th valves on 321’s?

Yeah that was a dumb design choice. Are there any shops or craftsmen near you that could handle the project

Yes I do have one nearby (Gerd Kempkes, Bocholt, Germany). I think the flat half step makes the most sense being dependent. Apart from that very low E….

[bloke]

In regards to the length that the 381 5th circuit was built at the factory, I was unable to shorten it enough to be a B flat semitone nor lengthen it enough to be a B flat whole tone.

[Wilco]

In regards to the length that the 381 5th circuit was built at the factory, I was unable to shorten it enough to be a B flat semitone nor lengthen it enough to be a B flat whole tone.

That is really good to know. You have been given me a lot of info, great!

For the purpose of correct intonation for all fingerings, except that low E, would a trigger on the MTS make sense? Is there enough pull available? Cost wise it wouldn’t make much of a difference. Triggers are expensive too…

[bloke]

That wouldn't add enough tubing.

A whole tone that is in tune with an E-flat tuba with its 4th valve actuated is the same length as a #1 valve circuit on a BB-flat tuba...

Take a look at how much tubing that is...and you're talking about pulling out the main slide this much ADDITIONALLY...It just isn't possible.

[bloke]

You probably don't like this idea...

...but I might be tempted to keep my eyes open for a really low-priced USED Jinbao (whatever name engraved on the bell) 3+1 compensating E-flat tuba, stick that 15-inch Yamaha bell onto the Jinbao (as the body tapers are going to be so similar), stick the Jinbao 19" bell onto the Yamaha 4-valve non-compensating tuba, and sell off the "hybrid" 19-inch bell non-compensating tuba.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 21525.html

https://jimlaabsmusicstore.com/store/sc ... n-eb-tuba/

voila!
...a fully chromatic (3+1 compensating) E-flat tuba with a nice compact-sounding Yamaha 15-inch bell (as the YEP-321 bell is - pretty much - a replica of the vintage Besson/B&H E-flat tubas' 15-inch bells).

[Wilco]

Maybe I will just do that when the opportunity presents itself.

On the other hand, the tuba plays surprisingly well and the valves are in good shape. The body could use some tough dent ball love, but for now I will have to get familiar with it.

Maybe it’s the mouthpiece combo but 1+3 is better in tune than the forth valve. But maybe that is just me at this point in time

[Wilco]

Maybe I will just do that when the opportunity presents itself.

On the other hand, the tuba plays surprisingly well and the valves are in good shape. The body could use some tough dent ball love, but for now I will have to get familiar with it.

Maybe it’s the mouthpiece combo but 1+3 is better in tune than the forth valve. But maybe that is just me at this point in time

Update; it plays VERY well in tune with a conn helleberg 7b! 1+3 combo’s now with 4. Super tuba!

[2nd tenor]

Maybe I will just do that when the opportunity presents itself.

On the other hand, the tuba plays surprisingly well and the valves are in good shape. The body could use some tough dent ball love, but for now I will have to get familiar with it.

Maybe it’s the mouthpiece combo but 1+3 is better in tune than the forth valve. But maybe that is just me at this point in time

Update; it plays VERY well in tune with a conn helleberg 7b! 1+3 combo’s now with 4. Super tuba!

I pleased that you found this Yamaha to be to your liking and am inclined to believe that they’re both under appreciated and pushed beyond what’s reasonable to expect from them. They rarely come up for secondhand sale in the UK and seem popular if rather expensive, I’d quite like to buy (secondhand) the three valve brother (YEB201) and maybe later see if a fourth valve could be added at a reasonable price.

Interesting about the mouthpiece, was that an accidental discovery or the result of much research?

Some long time back I posted some links here to videos of an old continental guy playing a Yamaha yeb321, he made some great classical music.

Edit. Here he is - I do hope he’s still playing - and you can find more examples now you’ve got his account details too (https://www.youtube.com/@sepplhuhn) :

[Wilco]

Thanks for the links! I did quite some research on old tubenet, and concluded some smallish helleberg type mouthpiece would be fitting. And not to wide of a rim, because in the high register the mouthpiece goes up to my nose (and there is just so much room ;)).

[2nd tenor]

Thanks for the links! I did quite some research on old tubenet, and concluded some smallish helleberg type mouthpiece would be fitting. And not to wide of a rim, because in the high register the mouthpiece goes up to my nose (and there is just so much room ;)).

You’re welcome to the links, I think the old guy does well and portrays the instrument well too. My Sovereign’s arguably a nicer instrument than the Yamaha, but he (Albrecht Buttmann, maybe from Schleswig in NE Germany) plays much better than me and shows that it’s what you do with what you’ve got that matters.

The YEB321’s come with a BB-66D4 mouthpiece of a similar cup diameter to the Helleberg (31.5mm)

https://www.tubaexchange.com/products/helleberg-mp
https://uk.yamaha.com/en/musical-instru ... specs.html
https://www.yamahamusiclondon.com/BB-66 ... lLofvmc5Qj

Where there particular posts on Tubenet that were helpful? …. if so then some links, please, would be appreciated.

Did you ever identify what parts you would buy to add the extra valve?

Edit. As I look at the possibility of adding an extra valve the on-line wisdom is: don’t do it. Overwhelmingly the advice is that the costs, assuming it can be done at all, by far outweigh the benefits; and that it is better to either be content with what you have or sell it to fund purchase of whatever other ideal instrument is sought.

[Bob Kolada]

Maybe I will just do that when the opportunity presents itself.

On the other hand, the tuba plays surprisingly well and the valves are in good shape. The body could use some tough dent ball love, but for now I will have to get familiar with it.

Maybe it’s the mouthpiece combo but 1+3 is better in tune than the forth valve. But maybe that is just me at this point in time

There used to be a practice here (by Harvey Phillips perhaps?) where a 4 valve tuba player would tune the 4th valve flat and ride the 3rd slide to clean up the low register. Admittedly this would be a lot easier on a front valve horn but it's something to consider.

King used to make a 4 top valve euphonium set up like this.
https://connselmer.com/instruments/alto ... in-bb-2280

You could also try playing low F 12 and E 3, hell of a lot cheaper than adding a 5th valve.

[Wilco]

I just got in a Doug Elliott moutpiece (P cup, 128 rim), that mpc works so much better! I primarily play trombone and have been playing his mpc’s for 20 years. I asked him for advice and went for it. Really glad this mpc works out so well.