Best Bb tuba for up to $12k?

[Hamertones]

I’ve not really heard much about the Siegfried. All the talk is about the Hagen. How does this tuba stack up against the best of them?

[hrender]

See @bloke's posts about his 98.

[dp]

Im a hobby tuba player. Only had a Cerveny Bb tuba which at the time was 6k and served me well for the past 20 years. Now im ready to upgrade. Would like to know what the best Bb tuba options would be for a price cap of around 12K?

Can I make a couple suggestions? While you are thinking about shopping, remember that 1) if you wait long enough literally every possible great BBflat tuba made or otherwise available will be mentioned. Then you'll be no better off as far as narrowing your choices. 2) Call your local symphony's tuba player and ask if you can take lessons every other week for 3-6 months, and work very hard on your playing and following their advice and direction.

Oh, if "you just want a great horn", find a great Marzan or Bohm & Meinl piston BBflat. They show up here all the time. Then you'll be able to afford to keep your Cerveny, you'll have something new thats a lot of fun to play and completely different from your Cerveny, you'll have the flexibility of choices when playing with your ensemble, and you'll still be able to easily afford those lessons I suggested.

--dp

[Mary Ann]

LESSONS!?!?!?! Blasphemy!

[bloke]

See @bloke's posts about his 98.

yeah, but...
(in euros)

[tofu]

Im a hobby tuba player. Only had a Cerveny Bb tuba which at the time was 6k and served me well for the past 20 years. Now im ready to upgrade. Would like to know what the best Bb tuba options would be for a price cap of around 12K?

I think you have the cart before the horse. The “best” Bb tuba is very subjective - depending on what one needs it to do. Lots of great choices of excellent horns, but the sound they produce, ease of playing (ergonomically & air needed), are you planning to hold down a chamber group, 40 or 50 or 60 or 70 or 80 piece ensemble by yourself or are you playing in a tuba section etc.

Will you be using the horn for some solo recitals? Rotary or piston - some people have real preferences and others don’t care as long as they work well. Quality of build - a lot of the quality of a tuba can’t be easily seen by the naked eye - such as the craftsmanship of rotary pistons. A very expensive part of a tuba and one that is not only critical, but incredibly expensive to get rebuilt. Quality lasts - it retains it’s value better, needs fewer repairs / re-working and names like Miraphone will still be in demand 20 years from now as a known quality name. Some random name slapped on a Chinese import by a importer from some random factory 20 years from now (if the tuba is still functioning) will be heavily discounted by buyers, will take longer to sell and even if it plays well in a play test the market will still discount it because a buyer will have the same selling struggle the seller had the next time around. That doesn’t mean there aren’t some good Chinese horns with good QC - but the resale market will favor those with a known pedigree not the random American distributor that had a random name stuck on a batch of tubas they imported from a random China tuba factory.

Since you’ve been playing a good long time I assume you know the sound you are chasing - we don’t. For some folks a classic german Alexander BBb would be an awesome horn. Others perhaps not as they are more interested in that big classic American sound such as an old Holton 345. Perhaps you’re looking for a horn that is similar to your current Cerveny. If so what is it about your current horn that you wish was better? What don't you like?

For 12K you have a pretty wide menu - especially if you’re willing to buy a good used example of a horn. I would really recommend going out and playing various horns to see what you like - what you are chasing. Things like ergonomics, valve angles, front action or top action, valve speed are really user specific tastes. How my hand/arm works with a horn valve section and how easy it is to hold could be great for me and unworkable for you.

The only way to know is for you to try it. Conferences can be useful to get some inkling. But what I would really recommend depending on where you are located or ease of traveling. Go to a place like Dillons on the east coast - Matt Walters there (a tuba player himself) is a great guy to talk to and you can try various horns there to find what you are looking for. He can really guide you. Lee Stofer in Clinton Iowa is another great source. As is Matt - Lee is also a tuba player/excellent repair person and has many nice horns at his location just west of the Mississippi and not far from the home of John Deere in Moline Illinois. Neither Lee or Matt will steer you wrong and a used horn from them is as good as new.

Take your time - 12K is still a good amount of money and if you can save some and get something that meets your needs so much the better. And if shiny is important there are lots of like new used horns in the secondary market at much more attractive pricing - thousands less. That alone pays for a trip to Lee Stofer in Iowa or Matt Walter in New Jersey to test and buy a used tuba. Tubas are not investments. The return is the value & joy it brings you from playing it. Good Luck!

[Hamertones]

Im a hobby tuba player. Only had a Cerveny Bb tuba which at the time was 6k and served me well for the past 20 years. Now im ready to upgrade. Would like to know what the best Bb tuba options would be for a price cap of around 12K?

I think you have the cart before the horse. The “best” Bb tuba is very subjective - depending on what one needs it to do. Lots of great choices of excellent horns, but the sound they produce, ease of playing (ergonomically & air needed), are you planning to hold down a chamber group, 40 or 50 or 60 or 70 or 80 piece ensemble by yourself or are you playing in a tuba section etc.

Will you be using the horn for some solo recitals? Rotary or piston - some people have real preferences and others don’t care as long as they work well. Quality of build - a lot of the quality of a tuba can’t be easily seen by the naked eye - such as the craftsmanship of rotary pistons. A very expensive part of a tuba and one that is not only critical, but incredibly expensive to get rebuilt. Quality lasts - it retains it’s value better, needs fewer repairs / re-working and names like Miraphone will still be in demand 20 years from now as a known quality name. Some random name slapped on a Chinese import by a importer from some random factory 20 years from now (if the tuba is still functioning) will be heavily discounted by buyers, will take longer to sell and even if it plays well in a play test the market will still discount it because a buyer will have the same selling struggle the seller had the next time around. That doesn’t mean there aren’t some good Chinese horns with good QC - but the resale market will favor those with a known pedigree not the random American distributor that had a random name stuck on a batch of tubas they imported from a random China tuba factory.

Since you’ve been playing a good long time I assume you know the sound you are chasing - we don’t. For some folks a classic german Alexander BBb would be an awesome horn. Others perhaps not as they are more interested in that big classic American sound such as an old Holton 345. Perhaps you’re looking for a horn that is similar to your current Cerveny. If so what is it about your current horn that you wish was better? What don't you like?

For 12K you have a pretty wide menu - especially if you’re willing to buy a good used example of a horn. I would really recommend going out and playing various horns to see what you like - what you are chasing. Things like ergonomics, valve angles, front action or top action, valve speed are really user specific tastes. How my hand/arm works with a horn valve section and how easy it is to hold could be great for me and unworkable for you.

The only way to know is for you to try it. Conferences can be useful to get some inkling. But what I would really recommend depending on where you are located or ease of traveling. Go to a place like Dillons on the east coast - Matt Walters there (a tuba player himself) is a great guy to talk to and you can try various horns there to find what you are looking for. He can really guide you. Lee Stofer in Clinton Iowa is another great source. As is Matt - Lee is also a tuba player/excellent repair person and has many nice horns at his location just west of the Mississippi and not far from the home of John Deere in Moline Illinois. Neither Lee or Matt will steer you wrong and a used horn from them is as good as new.

Take your time - 12K is still a good amount of money and if you can save some and get something that meets your needs so much the better. And if shiny is important there are lots of like new used horns in the secondary market at much more attractive pricing - thousands less. That alone pays for a trip to Lee Stofer in Iowa or Matt Walter in New Jersey to test and buy a used tuba. Tubas are not investments. The return is the value & joy it brings you from playing it. Good Luck!

Great advice. To be honest i would say im looking for an experience. Different from my cerveny which I genuinely love but im looking for a second tuba, maybe not the most expensive ever made though i would seriouly consider splurging for a Hagen or Siegfried if i could find one. That said, even though I would humbly say im better that average skill, i dont think i could exhaust the potential of those instruments. Im a casual hobbiest at this point, like playing well and with other highly talented instrumentalist's but im no professional. Looking for something to bring a smile to my face. I look up each suggestion (some of which I never heard of before). Always wise to ask the pros for red flags

[Pauvog1]

A Hagen 496 might fit in your budget.

The Eastman 825vg does as well.

https://www.dillonmusic.com/eastman-ebb ... quantity=1

[Mary Ann]

I dragged out my Hagen 494 for the upcoming freebee we do every year (quintet from the brass band) for the Salvation Army's TG meal for the homeless, which is extremely well attended. We always end up outside, and it's a tuba part, not an Eb tuba part. The Hagen never fails to make me smile, and raises eyebrows with the difference between it and the NStar with the low range. It isn't a BAT (except for ME) but if you like a Miraphone sound, the cost is less than your stated financial ceiling. And you can always get a bigger one than a 494.
I have recently switched to the Mike Finn 4H on it. With that, even I can get the F an octave below the staff, as well as no problem with Bb on top of the staff. One fine mouthpiece.

[iiipopes]

I play a Jupiter JTU-1110. Open wrap, .730 bore, etc. Great intonation. Blends well in the band. Relatively mouthpiece insensitive so you can shade tone and response to your tonal ideal and embouchure. I bought it during an end-of-Covid sale new, so I have had it a few years. It keeps getting better and better. I had added a water key to the 2nd valve slide and had the leadpipe and receiver fitted to my overbite. In recent years of manufacture, including mine, the design has been tweaked by Patrick Sheridan, who left Besson and now consults to Jupiter. Everywhere I play it is well received.

I play outdoor concerts on a Conn 36K souzy. So with the similar bore and length of leadpipe into the valve block, it is easy to switch between horns, especially in the summer with indoor rehearsals but outdoor concerts.

Summary: a very good value-for-money enlightened tuba design that is most versatile and consistent in tone, intonation, and response from bottom pedal BBb to top of the bass clef. Links to Patrick Sheridan demonstrating the tuba:
Summary:
Detail:

[Lee Stofer]

Hamertones,
I would suggest doing some traveling. The Midwest Clinic in Chicago is December 17-19, and the exhibit hall will likely have 250 different BBb tubas that you can try out.

February 18-21 is the United States Army Band's annual Tuba-Euphonium Workshop at Ft. Myer, Virginia, where the exhibit hall will have several hundred newand used tubas on display, for play-testing and purchase. Just about anything you can think of in the way of tuba brands will be there.

Depending on where you live, there is also the NAMM show in Anaheim, CA, and there are normally significant exhibits at TMEA in San Antonio, Texas, as well as other events where one can play-test instruments.

Tubas are as diverse as automobiles/trucks. You need to test-drive some various models to get an idea of what it will be like to live with a particular tuba on a daily basis. I have always thought Corvettes were neat, and at one time thought I wanted to have one. However, I know that it would be miserable now for me to have one, as it would not make sense in about 6 different ways for me to own one.

Try, and enjoy!

[Jerryleejr]

I’m a little late to the party, you can’t go wrong with those mentioned. However I can’t recommend the 289 highly enough. Not only is it rare on this side of the pond but its ergonomics for me were great. Had I seen that one at dillions I would’ve jumped on it. Otherwise I’d look hard at the YBB 623 or whichever Hagen Variant flips your switch. I do not suggest testing the Siegfried unless you’re prepared to double your budget it’s that good.

JJ