Convenient Mouthpiece Find

[EmptyCase]

I bought a $200 sousaphone in Texas and it just so happened that I had an original, 20s era?, conn contrabass mouthpiece which I was happening to also be looking for. This one is getting a small case made for it. Phenomenal condition. Of course it took a ton of cleaning up to get looking like this, but not any buffing fortunately.

Conn Chief

[bloke]

Not being a mouthpiece collector and not being one who would choose to play a Chief, I would put that up for sale just about immediately and thank "whatever brought the circumstances about" for the free sousaphone.

summary:
That's an excellent find and that's excellent luck.

Your Google drive settings aren't correct for us to be able to see the mouthpiece, but I don't need to see it, I've seen a shiny good condition Conn Chief before.

[Mary Ann]

Wessex has a mouthpiece they included with a 3/4 BBb tuba that they called the Chief. I liked it, actually, but not the tuba at the time.

[donn]

I thought Wessex had a copy of a Conn Chief, which might or might not be an odd mouthpiece for a 3/4 tuba. But stories I've heard about the Chief, I think may have made me wonder if there were a couple different designs sold under that name. Vague recollection, sorry, like there may have been variation in catalogue descriptions.

It would be interesting to know what's inside - dimensions, shape.

[MiBrassFS]

.

[iiipopes]

The bottom line is not whether it is collectible, rare, great shape, etc., it is how does it play for you? If it plays well for you, keep it. If not, then you can think about your other options.

[bloke]

I've never seen any version of the Conn Chief mouthpiece other than the pictured one.
I've had two different people tell me that the inside shape of a Holton 52 is not the same as that mouthpiece (one being an overseas person who claims to produce a Chief copy, and another who claims to have a Conn 2 copy - which I also view as a reissue of the Chief interior dimensions, as I've held a 2 and a Chief in my hands at the same time), but I've also held both a mouthpiece just like the one pictured and a Holton 52 in my hands at the same time, run my finger down inside, done a visual inspection, taken a few measurements (in addition to all of the other extreme similarities).

At one time, Holton made a sousaphone for Mr Kuhn, and engraved it all up with American Indian stuff (I haven't seen this sousaphone in person, but I've seen several pictures of it). It seems logical to me that Holton would copy Mr. Kuhn's mouthpiece, so he would play a Holton mouthpiece with that Holton sousaphone (which also supplies a possible and viable explanation of the origin of the Holton 52).

52's are becoming less common, but still far more common than a Chief. 52's also no longer sell for 20 bucks on eBay, but are still way less expensive than a good condition Chief.
In later days, Holton would supply a 52 with the big model 345 tubas. I guess they figured their largest mouthpiece should go with their largest tuba. Whenever I restore and sell a 345, I try to supply a 52 with it, just sort of as a cool factor.

Personally, the only type of sound I can get out of (any of) those mouthpieces (Chief, 2, 52) is a "deep bass" sound, as if turning the treble knob on an amplifier mostly all the way down. Anyone can read this as a critique, but - to me - it's just a report. Mouthpieces do different things that different people like or dislike.
I'm a medium tall person, but the bottom of my nose isn't particularly far away from the opening of my lips, and as those mouthpieces feature really large cup opening combined with a large width rim, and they're obviously turned out of a full 2 inch diameter brass rod with almost nothing taken off the outside edge.. they mash up against the bottom of my septum cartilage pretty hard.

These days, there could easily be someone who might pay 500 bucks for a handsome Chief mouthpiece like that. The way I see it you've got a free sousaphone and enough money left over to buy several sacks of groceries, along with the gasoline required to get to and from the supermarket.

[EmptyCase]

I've never seen any version of the Conn Chief mouthpiece other than the pictured one.
I've had two different people tell me that the inside shape of a Holton 52 is not the same as that mouthpiece (one being an overseas person who claims to produce a Chief copy, and another who claims to have a Conn 2 copy - which I also view as a reissue of the Chief interior dimensions, as I've held a 2 and a Chief in my hands at the same time), but I've also held both a mouthpiece just like the one pictured and a Holton 52 in my hands at the same time, run my finger down inside, done a visual inspection, taken a few measurements (in addition to all of the other extreme similarities).

At one time, Holton made a sousaphone for Mr Kuhn, and engraved it all up with American Indian stuff (I haven't seen this sousaphone in person, but I've seen several pictures of it). It seems logical to me that Holton would copy Mr. Kuhn's mouthpiece, so he would play a Holton mouthpiece with that Holton sousaphone (which also supplies a possible and viable explanation of the origin of the Holton 52).

52's are becoming less common, but still far more common than a Chief. 52's also no longer sell for 20 bucks on eBay, but are still way less expensive than a good condition Chief.
In later days, Holton would supply a 52 with the big model 345 tubas. I guess they figured their largest mouthpiece should go with their largest tuba. Whenever I restore and sell a 345, I try to supply a 52 with it, just sort of as a cool factor.

Personally, the only type of sound I can get out of (any of) those mouthpieces (Chief, 2, 52) is a "deep bass" sound, as if turning the treble knob on an amplifier mostly all the way down. Anyone can read this as a critique, but - to me - it's just a report. Mouthpieces do different things that different people like or dislike.
I'm a medium tall person, but the bottom of my nose isn't particularly far away from the opening of my lips, and as those mouthpieces feature really large cup opening combined with a large width rim, and they're obviously turned out of a full 2 inch diameter brass rod with almost nothing taken off the outside edge.. they mash up against the bottom of my septum cartilage pretty hard.

These days, there could easily be someone who might pay 500 bucks for a handsome Chief mouthpiece like that. The way I see it you've got a free sousaphone and enough money left over to buy several sacks of groceries, along with the gasoline required to get to and from the supermarket.

That’s some good insight! I plan on keeping it mainly because I knew it wasn’t a original Holton mouthpiece to the horn, and being that I was gunna throw it in the bin with the other random junk mouthpieces I have, I’m not really losing anything more than what I intended by keeping it. I have a knack for random tuba related stuff so what eves.

Photo of the horn as I have it now with the chief on it, for anyone who is curious.
Smells too….

[bloke]

I'm wrong (often) about models of tubas, but that appears to be a (rare) 6/4-size Holton (yes?), and I believe the Kuhn super-engraved Holton sousaphone (which I saw in pictures, years ago) was the same.

yeah...I'd strongly suspect (??) that the original mouthpiece - supplied with your sousaphone - was a 52.
That type of resonance (oversize sousaphone with an oversize mouthpiece) goes right along with the old-old-school adage,

"The 'basses" should be felt, but not heard."
(again: much like the modern-day "subwoofer" aural/tactile effect)

[EmptyCase]

I'm wrong (often) about models of tubas, but that appears to be a (rare) 6/4-size Holton (yes?), and I believe the Kuhn super-engraved Holton sousaphone (which I saw in pictures, years ago) was the same.

yeah...I'd strongly suspect (??) that the original mouthpiece - supplied with your sousaphone - was a 52.
That type of resonance (oversize sousaphone with an oversize mouthpiece) goes right along with the old-old-school adage,

"The 'basses" should be felt, but not heard."
(again: much like the modern-day "subwoofer" aural/tactile effect)

Yes, I believe it’s the bigger 6/4 Holton. I have a 52(I think it’s a 52 anyways, it’s at the shop) that I’m going to pair with this horn. So far, having been hung up outdoors for so long, lots of corrosion, and a dead bird, is what im dealing with. Luckily no screw holes or pin holes(yet)

Also how rare are we talking, again no intention on selling unless I particularly don’t like the sound on it.

[bloke]

I'm not a Holton expert and there's not a whole lot of that stuff in this part of the country. My high school had two really early Holton fiberglass sousaphones that seemed to have disappeared by the time I was about in the 9th or 10th grade. They were old looking when I first noticed them.

I really can't think of another Holton instrument owned privately or publicly by our entire High School band or even our college band - until Holton French horns started becoming a thing, but I do know that the six quarter Holton sousaphones are not at all common.

[donn]

The one I used to see seemed like a pretty fine instrument, despite some pretty desperate repairs (like replacing part of the bell collar.) It had a long valve throw. No real idea if it's the same model. Its owner got the kind of sound out of it that cut through to lay down a strong bottom, but with a texture that let the trombones etc. come right through. Always admired that.

[lost]

I love barn find threads. Yeah that's the bigger holton, curious as to the bell size. Should be a .750 bore. I had one at one point and really liked it, but too many horns blah blah blah...I'm in my don't polish phase. Heavily tarnished silver seems to get more respect from people curious to know how old your horn is. congrats