Don't make the taxpayers pay for your college band to march with Vincent Bach bass trombones.

[bloke]

...with two rotors, no less (gotta be ready for all those double low B naturals in those marching band arrangements).

Your college children are going to screw them all up, lose pieces on the ground, bust braces, twist both the playing slides and the bell sections, and fold their bell flares.

As you don't give a damn about the taxpayers in your state, don't expect them to give a damn about you.

... but if you're going to waste $5,000 X 2, stop buying this old technology stuff, and go ahead and waste $8,000 X 2 and get the state of the art mess, so your school children can tear up something really really expensive.

https://www.prowinds.com/product/50B2/B ... _Trombones

[Schlitzz]

Well, the military bands have expensive Shires double axial, rotax, and trubore valve bass trombones. Treated just as the college students do with Bachs. Lots of instruments stolen in the Army bands over the last 30 years. Hmm.

[bloke]

I've seen military purchased instruments ($14,000, etc ) missing all four pistons being offered up for sale is salvage.

It's hard to not imagine a new player in a military band finding out that they're going to have to use XXX brand of instrument - which they don't like, and their supply officer telling them that there's no way they can get something else unless it can be shown that the one they were issued is unplayable, so...

[arpthark]

I've seen military purchased instruments ($14,000, etc ) missing all four pistons being offered up for sale is salvage.

It's hard to not imagine a new player in a military band finding out that they're going to have to use XXX brand of instrument - which they don't like, and their supply officer telling them that there's no way they can get something else unless it can be shown that the one they were issued is unplayable, so...

As a military/civilian employee, when we have to discard stuff, we have to render it inoperable and take pics to prove that we are not selling it elsewhere or taking it for ourselves (“must be destroyed”). I wonder if this is a similar thing. There is typically a property custodian who is in charge of accountable property (for us, anything worth over 10k or any IT equipment) and the disposal process for accountable property is fairly involved and requires three or four sign-offs. I could see the scenario you’re describing occurring, but there would be lots of points along the chain of command where someone would say, “you did WHAT to that Miraphone 1291…?!” I wonder about those military surplus things too.

[bloke]

I've seen military purchased instruments ($14,000, etc ) missing all four pistons being offered up for sale is salvage.

It's hard to not imagine a new player in a military band finding out that they're going to have to use XXX brand of instrument - which they don't like, and their supply officer telling them that there's no way they can get something else unless it can be shown that the one they were issued is unplayable, so...

As a military/civilian employee, when we have to discard stuff, we have to render it inoperable and take pics to prove that we are not selling it elsewhere or taking it for ourselves (“must be destroyed”). I wonder if this is a similar thing. There is typically a property custodian who is in charge of accountable property (for us, anything worth over 10k or any IT equipment) and the disposal process for accountable property is fairly involved and requires three or four sign-offs. I could see the scenario you’re describing occurring, but there would be lots of points along the chain of command where someone would say, “you did WHAT to that Miraphone 1291…?!” I wonder about those military surplus things too.

Just as with everything, I'm sure it all depends on the character of the individual musician and the individual supply officer.
I have to believe the the same things occur (which are in the multiple billions - vs. thousands - of dollars) in all levels of government (as far as public property and publicly-owned equipment is concerned...ie. "who cares?...' ain't mine") It certainly happens as the college/secondary school (state/county/town government) level. "I don't like these old beat-up sousaphones, so I'm putting in a requisition for new (silver, no less) $13,000 sousaphones, so that - within a couple of years - they're just as trashed as were the others...but (well...) by then, I will have transferred to another school/school system."

getting back to the "military bands" topic...
Far more efficient (and more likely to pass muster with DOGE) would be a general warehouse - cataloged with a spreadsheet - whereby government musicians (and individual government musical ensembles) would be issued instruments (of their individual choosing) from the warehouse. ("Used" instruments - used by 25-years-old-and-older professionals - and then later warehoused - aren't going to be abused nor even particularly worn.) Even flying musicians to such a warehouse for in-person inspection/testing is far less expensive than intentionally trashing $6,000 - $26,000 instruments.

to any military band musicians:
I'm not accusing any individual or attempting to paint a broad brush. Again. behavior - which is reflective of good character - is going to be good behavior...regardless of one's profession...but I have seen very strong evidence of that which I described above, so I won't be talked out of believing that it sometimes occurs.

[gocsick]

I have to deal with DoD owned equipment as part of my research program as such I am much more familiar with the DoD Financial Management Regulation than I ever wanted to be... specifically DoD FMR Volume 4 which contains all the rules regarding General Property, Plant & Equipment (PP&E) which has specific sections for musical instruments.... The processes are labyrinthine to say the least.. complicated depreciation processes set for each piece of equipment individually by auditors, different formula to decide when something is Beyond Economic Repair that takes operational impact, mission readiness, time to repair, replacement cost, depreciated value, unit finances.... etc etc etc.. I am glad I have the university to deal with 99% of it for me... I hope the folks in uniform in our military bands have good commanding officers and support staff who shield them from all the regulations.

[bloke]

The thing that a lot of customers and just folks don't understand is that musical instruments don't really auto-depreciate (though they can be put on depreciation schedules for tax purposes). They are worth what they are worth based on what they are and their condition.

Were I to come across two instruments of the same model (a model in which I was interested in purchasing), one was brand new, the other was in brand new condition - but 10 years old, and the 10-year-old one played noticeably better than the new one (yet they were priced the same), I would buy the 10 year old one.

Were I shopping for a particularly common model like a 186 built-in C, and I stumbled across a never-played one from 1968 that offered amazing intonation, I might pay more for that one then I would pay for a new one.

Musical instruments just don't follow typical rules -;as far as their values are concerned.

Not meaning to fog up my post, but - even after tariffs bumping there competitive pricing up from about $300 to $350 - there are some beginner Chinese instruments which prompt one to look askance at new-condition (used) beginner instruments made domestically or in Japan, offered at the same price level.

[MiBrassFS]

.

[bloke]

Aren’t these VB trombones now the economy choice given the “boutique status” trombone makers have cultivated?

Whether that's the perception and whether or not their quality has gone down, the price of those products has continued to soar, it's still too much money to be dragging around in a cow pasture.