Hidden World War Two Nazi tuba found in European Opera House?

[prairieboy1]

A bit of a detective hunt here. Does anyone know the story of the tuba that was found in the rafters of an Opera House, I think in Vienna? It was supposedly bought by a professional tubist and then played. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

[Porky]

You’re probably talking about Walter Hilgers tuba. The B&F. I spoke to a German gentlemen who’s father was a tuba player in the
Luftwaffe band in that era and a lot of horns and mouthpieces were hidden or even sold for food. There are a few stories about tubas and horns getting found years later. Just to clarify there was no such thing as a Nazi tuba.

In Stuttgart there was a Kaiser tuba used in one of bands preserved and wrapped in a blanket in a basement of a church and found in the 80s. That’s just one example.

[MiBrassFS]

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[Robson]

Melton/Meinl Weston based one of their instrument, the 197, on the tuba that you might be referencing, a B&F tuba (on the right below with a young Hilgers).



The one below, a Wunderlich, was interesting. It was used in Hitler’s “Own” SS band.

I thought the 197 was based on a Bohland & Fuchs...

[catgrowlB]

^ It is. The MW 197 is on the left with its bell up, and the B&F original is on the right on its bell in that Walter Hilgers pic. The Wunderlich tuba is a different tuba...

[prairieboy1]

Thank you to all who responded to this question. I appreciate your knowledge and insight!

[prairieboy1]

You’re probably talking about Walter Hilgers tuba. The B&F. I spoke to a German gentlemen who’s father was a tuba player in the
Luftwaffe band in that era and a lot of horns and mouthpieces were hidden or even sold for food. There are a few stories about tubas and horns getting found years later. Just to clarify there was no such thing as a Nazi tuba.

In Stuttgart there was a Kaiser tuba used in one of bands preserved and wrapped in a blanket in a basement of a church and found in the 80s. That’s just one example.

Thank you for the correction regarding the tuba being labelled as something that it clearly was not.

[bloke]

B&F... Those tubas were Bohemian, were they not?
My understanding is that - before Hitler took over - the Czechoslovak Republic's people - politically - were smart enough to neither be ruled by national socialism nor it's older sibling, Marxist socialism...
... so no, I don't see how it could be called a Nazi tuba. ..

... but I'm more interested in the German-made copies, as opposed to a 1930s or earlier tuba of which there may be only one.

It's sort of coincidental, but recently I've been communicating with a long time friendly acquaintance (who is somewhat of a celebrity to tuba players) and who just returned from Europe after testing out both the 97 and the 197.

Who knows enough about their differences to explain them, and who else here has played both the 97 and the 197? (I've played neither.)

https://www.melton-meinl-weston.com/en/ ... nts/tubas/

[Tubeast]

I believe the OP´s question has been successfully answered.

I´d argue that there is no such thing as a Nazi Tuba, just as there were no Nazi boxing gloves or bicycles.
In contrast, there were Nazi typewriters, though, which featured special characters such as sig-runes and somehow got unpopular at some point in time...

I´d define a Nazi-object as something the characteristic traits of which were TYPICAL for that regime, didn´t exist before and got out of fashion with the downfall of the 3rd Reich, except for stupid people who enjoy the vibes to this day.

All kinds of stuff carried swastikas or other insignia of the German state during those 12 years. That doesn´t have to mean anything, though:
Objects equipped with national symbols carry ambiguous meaning and offer neither reliable signs of affiliation nor context, as most of you clearly observed:
It´s just something you slap on stuff to do things with while others tell you what your feelings and intentions are supposed to be.

[Chris Mayer]

This Topic is very interesting and resembles a lot of the Graslitz / Kraslice area musik instrument making industrie with familiar Names of Bohland und Fuchs whose facilities where then used the Amati and its export brand Lignatone, Rudolf Meinl, Anton Meinl (Melton), Miraphone etc etc in West Germany after WW2 and all had roots in Graslitz.

The Melton Model is based on the Bohland & Fuchs Kaiser oder Riesen (or Giant) Kontrabass in B model 69 1/2. In https://www.brasstacks.de/ce_photo/html ... ./../sound
you find a nice picture of a 1930-ies B&F catalogue. This model is similar in size to Model 69 (Kaiserbass in B oder C) which has a vertical main tuning slide. Both models have been marketed by Lignatone as 69 or 69 1/2 or Cerveny as 691 or 696. If you have a Lignatone from the 1950-ies, chances are very high, that still old pre war B&F parts were used (one piece bells, braces, tubing) and such tubas were also very lightweight (9,8 kg vs the Cerveny 691 11 kg). (my silver plated Lignatone 69 3 valve 50 cm bell weights only 9 kg and has a one piece bells, plays open and resonant like a Alex 164 or a Rudy Bayreuth and also looks like a Rudy with all the wraps especially those of the 3rd and 4th valve circuits Graslitz style).

Interesting in the context of defining a kaiser tuba, B&F defines the 1/2, 3/4, 4/4, ganz weit (aka 5/4 really wide) and Kaiserbass mainly by the diameters of the 2 ends of the bottom bow bevor the bell of the tuba. 154 mm diameter at the entry into the bell, 95 mm at the beginning of the bottom bow. Taper as the key parameter for weight and breath of sound. Height and Bell diameter grow accordingly. 69 and 69 1/2 just different in height due to warp style. Bow diameters and hence sound are the same aka kaiserbass. Also interesting to note, that a 42 to 45 cm already qualifies for a Kaiser Tuba if the taper (Mensur) has the right size. 50 or even 55 cm bells would have been a extra. Bore size is not even mentioned (is 21,2 mm for the Kaiser Tubas). Hence, the blueprint for the Melton 197 is based on the smallest B&F Modell 69 1/2 Kaisertuba. I personally believe this makes this tuba more resonant and direkt vs a wider bell as maybe required by the military playing in the open.

Another interesting model is the Cerveny 1024 Kaisertuba. https://www.brasstacks.de/ce_photo/html ... ./../sound which was later peoduced by Cerveny as 601. This is the 1930-ies version of the Kaisertuba Cerveny has claimed to develop in the 19th Century and which was copied the by B&F, Alexander etc. The wrap of the 3rd and 4th valve beeing open at the back of the tuba was typical Cerveny and copied by Alexander (look at the back of a F Tuba, 163 or 164) and later with the move of Alexander Crönlein in the mid 1930 ies from Alexander to Hess Klingethal (later basically B&S) shows this also with the various B&S Tubas (101, 104, Symphonie F tuba).

I find these DNAs still found in modern instruments very fascinating.

Chris