What's your favorite 6 valve configuration?

[Robson]

What's your favorite 6 valve configuration? And Why?

[Craig F]

3+3 because my pinkies are USELESS.

Optionally 4+2 where 4 is right thumb operated.

[Mark]

My F tuba is 4 + 2. If I am going to have the sixth valve operated by my left hand, I would prefer to have the fifth left-hand operated also, since my left fingers are faster than my right thumb.

[the elephant]

4p R + 2r L

Love it.

[bloke]

The classic 4 plus 2 allows the left hand index and middle finger to mirror the chromatic pattern of the right hand, and it leaves both thumbs available just in case they owner of the instrument is interested in triggering the first valve slide and the fifth valve slide...
... or the main slide, if it's one of those typical suck F tubas with the mile high sharp second space c.

Probably, first valve slide would be best were it reverse triggered, as the fifth partial often needs a little help as far as being flat. Also, the 1-2 and 2-3 8th partial D and D-flat on an F tuba are often flat, so a reverse #1 slide trigger would be helpful on those pitches as well.

[Snake Charmer]

3+3. I never got used to this 23/24 combinations in one hand.
And even if I don't have a coordination problem with my pinky when playing piano or ophicleide (two keys there!) my weak wrist and elbow start making trouble when trying to operate a lever with a bit of force, throw and wide spread hand position

[prodigal]

I've only worked with 5 valve tubas, but my current 1960 186 CC is 4R, 1L which is DIFFERENT, at least to me, from my 1998 TE-186 CC which was 5R. I keep squeezing my thumb and 23 for F, but I have nothing there. (This is a case of idiot user error, not the horn. I'm used to just lazily flopping my right arm down on top of the bow, holding onto the first valve slide to push it in for 3rd line D, but now, I have to teach myself to grab the 5th with my index finger.) Granted, I play a lot of cello and guitar, so I'm used to scooting around with the left hand, but it is very different.

Does the sixth valve really make a difference on an F tuba? I always only had 5R to play between a Symphony and PT15, so I'm ignorant, but look forward to your feedback.

[JC2]

4+2 B&S style is my preferred setup, although I’ve spent a few years playing that setup so it feels like second nature. Most B&S tubas have good enough intonation that you can lip everything in tune. Most of them would be even better with a second valve trigger though. Really helps stabilise the low D and Db as well as getting 1+2 / 2+4 notes right in the centre.

If the tuba is a bit more challenging for intonation 5+1 can help facilitate a bit of slide manipulation, but my preference would always be proper triggers for rotary tubas.

[Robson]

Very interesting!!

I was expecting almost 100% of 4R and 2L....
I'm surprised that 3+3 is not forgotten (I thought it was something from the past...)

[the elephant]

… 5+1 can help facilitate a bit of slide manipulation…

My original setup for my Kurath was 5+1, and when I added a 6th valve, I set it up as a separate thing, which I did not like. So I built this crazy, Rube Goldberg 5th lever that allowed me to operate it via BOTH my R thumb and L index fingers. This was super useful, but unfortunately, they were linked, so when I used one lever, the other one would move with it. This caused me to badly crush the R thumbnail several times beneath the end of the thumb lever's platen. VERY PAINFUL!

If I can figure out a dependent system that allows me to move the LH 5th lever with the RH thumb lever not engaging, this would be my ideal setup. However, though this is easy to do when the two levers operate two separate valves, having a dependent system on the same valve is something I have not been able to work out.

Yet.

[the elephant]

Aaaaaaaaand it just came to me. (Weird how quickly that happens, sometimes!)

Thanks for writing what you did, as it caused me to finally sit down and suss this thing out. When (someday) I have the time to do this, I'll post a thread about it. It ought to be fairly interesting.

Thanks!

[the elephant]

Um, to explain a bit…

First off, I apologize for hijacking this thread. I just needed to get this down before I lose it in my jumbled brain. I will come back here later and copy it down into my project notebook, but I am away from home. Again, I a sorry I derailed this thread.

For those who have never read any of my crazy-long build threads, I have one on adding a 6th valve to my F tuba, because it is a piston horn, and solving how that would work was a real problem.

I had to use my 1st slide a good bit on this tuba and was very worried about tying up my left hand on valve levers so that moving the slide was a PIITA. (I try to set up my horns so that my left hand never has to move.)

I ended up rigging 6th behind the 1st slide so that I could keep my LH where it normally rests. It took a lot of planning and work, but I got it rigged up nicely. However, I wanted to keep the 5th workable with the RH thumb as I was worried about sightreading on gigs and having issues from low Bb down because suddenly my 5-valved brain could not remember where the new lever was. So my solution was 5th and 6th behind the 1st slide, with the 5th linkage being connected directly to a thumb lever so that I could use 5th with either hand.

[I had an old Mirafone 180-5U F with LH 5th that I converted to RH — but I left the LH system in place and hooked up. I never used it, but was unwilling to remove that functionality since it was factory and… um… nicer than mine. I ended up deleting the LH stuff as I never used it. But I never forgot being able to operate the 5th with either hand; it was pretty cool.]

Eventually, I deleted the thumb lever as I got used to having 5th on the LH.

Now I think I will add it back in, but with the lever being detached from the LH linkage, working like a clarinet "broken" lever across the upper and lower stacks. I have made these in the past, so it ought not be too hard. The lever bracket is already on the horn, and the lever is made. I just have to silver solder the interlink bits to the link arm and the lever.

Originally, I had made the thumb lever *the* lever, and the LH link arm was connected to it as a separate piece via a Schaubin Unibal link. I would make the LH link *the* link and put a "step block" on it. The RH lever would then have a similar block and would push the other link down when the lever is depressed. But when the LH lever is pushed, the RH thumb lever will not move.

Here is how it was set up initially, and I deleted the thumb lever altogether.



Here is what I have today. It is 5 and 6 for LH only.

[bloke]

That's pretty snazzy Wade.

...avoiding the username as it just occurred to me that the only two WADE people I know live in Mississippi, and both play music for a living.


This WADE plays a 47-valves instrument:

[the elephant]

That's pretty snazzy Wade.

...avoiding the username as it just occurred to me that the only two WADE people I know live in Mississippi, and both play music for a living.


This WADE plays a 47-valves instrument:

Wade was our 2nd bassoonist for a number of years when I started here. I think he left the orchestra around 1999 or so. He's a solid player and a great fellow! Is he still teaching at Ole Miss?

[Robson]

So my solution was 5th and 6th behind the 1st slide, with the 5th linkage being connected directly to a thumb lever so that I could use 5th with either hand.

Do you have a picture of this?

[bloke]

I believe Wade Irvin may be teaching privately, might have been teaching adjunct or temporary at some school, and he had been playing up in the Tupelo Orchestra (which is not a slouch operation)...

...but I'm not sure what he's up to right at the moment

Wade definitely retired from Ole Miss...
Mrs. bloke just brought a stack of seven bassoons (used in woodwinds class) back from the dead.
NONE of them were playable...and - hey - they all now work.
' might seem off-topic, but (confirming that Wade retired) Adam Estes (Wade's replacement - for several years, now) handed them off to her.

Wade's a good guy...and so is Adam.

[the elephant]

So my solution was 5th and 6th behind the 1st slide, with the 5th linkage being connected directly to a thumb lever so that I could use 5th with either hand.

Do you have a picture of this?

The photo above shows the complete lever/linkage/linkage setup off the horn. Here is an illustration of how it would have been on the horn. (I cannot find a photo of it installed.)

[Robson]

So my solution was 5th and 6th behind the 1st slide, with the 5th linkage being connected directly to a thumb lever so that I could use 5th with either hand.

Do you have a picture of this?

The photo above shows the complete lever/linkage/linkage setup off the horn. Here is an illustration of how it would have been on the horn. (I cannot find a photo of it installed.)

Now I got it! Super duper nice!!!

[Colby Fahrenbacher]

5+1 for me. With how often the fifth valve is needed on an F tuba, I never liked being required to hold the horn only one way or needing to thoughtfully move to use it. I found the 4+2 configuration on my PT16 to be uncomfortable after long periods of time, so I had it converted to 5+1.

This also has the added benefit of utilizing the muscle memory developed for the standard 4+1 set-ups.

[arpthark]

I like 4+2, but all the ones I've owned have had the flat half step in the first finger and the flat whole step (or for my Alex, quint valve) in the second finger.