How many tubas and euphoniums does a 50 or 60 piece wind band really need?

[bloke]

I've been thinking a good bit about the (mostly) band director band that I've been invited to play in. I played one concert with them - so far - which involved a series of four rehearsals. I'm pretty sure the idea is to do one concert after the stress is off the band directors in the fall semester, and the same - each year - towards the end of the spring semester (again: when things aren't as stressful for them.) I really enjoyed it, and one thing I think I enjoyed was the fact that they didn't play "band pieces" but played music pieces. Another set of pluses is the musicality, talent, and courtesy of the music director.

There is only one euphonium player.
The person playing it is sleight of stature and doesn't play particularly heroically, but they play quite well, and there's never any problem hearing them nor hearing their solos.

There are two tuba players.
Candidly, I sort of liked it (though I very much enjoy the fellowship with another tuba player) when the other tuba player had to be gone for a really important thing for one rehearsal. I'm sure it's because I had control of the "tuba" volume and the phrasing. I really don't feel like I ever had any trouble putting out enough sound (as one player) at the height of the crescendos, and I really feel like it was nice not having to whisper or lay out on the super-soft ("don't cover up the bassoons and contrabass clarinets") things.

I've typically seen DC service bands touring with three tubas. I do understand the difference between what I usually do (which is to play in orchestras) and the wall-to-wall playing involved in wind bands...but - when I'm practicing at home - I'm playing wall to wall. ... just as I do when I'm playing in little jazz bands whether it's really loud outdoors or not quite so loud indoors.

Camaraderie is great. I completely understand this, because I have this with the trombone players in the various orchestras with which I'm involved... but do "concert" wind bands really need multiple tubas and multiple euphoniums?

[djwpe]

It depends on the rep. If you’re playing only old rep without divisi in tuba or euphonium, one works fine. But even the Hunsberger arrangement of festive overture published in 1965 has divisi in the euphonium.

For modern rep, I’ve seen pieces (Pete Meechan’s Korn Symphony, for example) that has 2 euphonium parts each with divisi, which makes 4.

[arpthark]

I think two tubas and two euphs is plenty for most medium sized wind bands.

The summer festival band I played in a few weeks ago had about sixty players and 9 (!!!!!) tubas. I played a tiny Eb tuba, on the upper divisi (not that it really mattered; balance was absolutely f—ed regardless). They don’t turn people away and it meets once a year, so what can you do. Maybe next year I’ll bring a euph, or work on my third trumpet chops so I can sit near Mark Ridenour (CSO second trumpet), who quietly plays in the section without drawing any attention to himself at all.

[tofu]

Maybe next year I’ll bring a euph, or work on my third trumpet chops so I can sit near Mark Ridenour (CSO second trumpet), who quietly plays in the section without drawing any attention to himself at all.

He’s retiring end of the month after 31 years with the CSO at age of 66. CSO has taken a few hits in the brass section of late. There seems to be some discontent in the organization although it should be noted they have a lot of folks who been there a long long time and many being way beyond the age of normal retirement. Around here Mutti himself has been getting some harsh reviews of late as have the programming choices.

[Schlitzz]

I like 4 euphs, 2 TC & BC, 4 tubas, 2 EEb & BBb. Covers Goldman, and Reed instrumentation. Alto clarinets and bass saxophones should be wall mounted at local bars, and restaurants. Db piccolos work great as yard sprinklers.

This is dependent on having a serviceable trumpet section. The loud, obnoxious community bands have messed up trumpet folders. Sometimes, people show an hour into those 2, 2.5 hour rehearsals. YMMV.

[Schlitzz]

Younger players always tend to complain about older players. Until they age a little bit.

[bloke]

crapped up title to the thread:
...so that's why I try to avoid voice texting on my phone... because it's hard to read, and I miss the stuff that's wrong the first time through...

===============

divisi parts - old charts:
I just don't see much use in it. The upper octave is always covered by somebody else in those old band pieces, and it seems to me that stuff is put there as a courtesy (in the distant past) for people with small three-valve E-flat tubas.

[tofu]

This is dependent on having a serviceable trumpet section. The loud, obnoxious community bands have messed up trumpet folders. Sometimes, people show an hour into those 2, 2.5 hour rehearsals. YMMV.

We are a 90 piece (paid well) Muni Band & we don’t allow that kind of BS. Doors to our performance center are locked precisely 15 minutes after the start time for rehearsals. No late entry after that and folks are expected to be in seats warmed up & ready to play 15 minutes before start time. We also have a hard minimum 80% attendance requirement for all rehearsals before a Concert. Summer season it’s butt in seat ready to play minimum 30 minutes before curtain drop for concerts and indoor concerts it’s 1.5 hours before curtain drop to do sound checks etc in hall and run through any pieces with any outside soloists. Groups don’t have to accept that type of disruptive behavior. We have like a 300 year long waiting list of qualified players who want to be in the group (average tenure 25 years). Tons of good players out there with not that many good groups to play in nowadays - so no need to accommodate disruptive prima donnas who are unwilling to commit to being on time etc.

[bloke]

Just For what it's worth, the bloke Fan Club has a 40,000 person waiting list.

(We limit the size of our fan club to 3.6 million members.)

[Jperry1466]

For 8 years, our 50-60 piece community band had one tuba (me) and one euphonium, another retired band director. Then, low brass players for some reason started retiring to that town. One year, we had 11 tubas (yes, eleven - all good players and 4 of us with performance degrees) in that 60-piece band for the July 4th concert. Needless to say, we made the director program Them Basses and National Emblem for the concert. That was great fun. Now we're "down" to 4-5 tubas. That doesn't really answer your original question, but my thought was there's no such thing as too many if they play well (and you have the right literature).

[2nd tenor]

A Brass Band has two Euphoniums, two Eb Basses and two BBb Basses for a standard band of circa twenty six players. The important words there are standard band. I’m not sure that there is a standard wind band but the referenced configuration below seems to have one euphonium and one tuba for a band of circa thirty so double those numbers (two euphoniums and two tubas) for a band of sixty would seem about right.
https://music.fsu.edu/wp-content/upload ... TATION.pdf

I’d observe that playing large wind instruments can be physically demanding and particularly so at loud volumes. Sharing the work between more players (extra section members) who deliberately dial their individual volume back makes sense to me - if not always to others.
Edit. I’d also observe that one of my section mates is quieter than me and another is louder so for a balance of sound - setting aside marked dynamics - there might not be such a thing as a standard Tuba player. Of course a good section and good conductor work with who’s there, etc.

[Thomas]

In my opinion, having two decent players knowing their instruments and range is fun and sufficient for most setups required in a symphonic wind band. For some years we were two tuba players in our symphonic wind band, me playing a Besson 4v 17" comp and my colleague playing a Besson Eb 19". We could cover the complete tonal and dynamic range and could easily share divisi parts matching to our tubas. I am lucky to have a similar setup in my community wind band when I often switch to F-Tuba for our christmas concerts, my colleague playing BBb, both german style instruments. This setup should be comfortably sufficient for 60 piece bands depending on the location. Some outdoor locations are challenging for non-amplified bass instruments anyway unless there are a ton of bass players.

The tuba choice itself makes a huge difference to enable relaxed playing, my german Kaisertuba can carry more players than my Besson.

[DonO.]

Our 65 piece community band presently has 4 euphoniums (one plays a true baritone horn) and 5 tubas. I think we are blessed! Membership fluctuates. We have a spring concert season, a summer season, and a holiday concert season. Not everybody signs up for every season, for various reasons. The tuba section has fluctuated for the past couple of years. We always have at least 2. Sometimes 3 4 or 5. It’s all good and we just go with what we have. The director is flexible as long as the parts are covered and he can hear that it is. I’m a big fan of 4. That seems to be a really good sound for us. 5 might be a bit of overkill, but we are not the type of organization that turns anyone away. We would never in a million years say “the section is full- join the waiting list”. We are very inclusive. If anybody wants to play without group, we are thrilled!

[catgrowlB]

I'd say at least 2 tubas for 50+ piece band. More tubas for a larger group. Here's the thing --- tubas play a little different role in concert bands than in orchestras. Tubas ARE the basses in concert bands. Imo, the tuba sound should be very full, and dark and heavy and smooth, almost like a section of string basses. You feel the sound as much as hear it. Not as 'blatant' as the orchestral tuba sound, which only has one tuba, which is the bridge between the trombones and the string basses.

So, lots of deep bottom tuba sound in concert bands, but not too blatant or chunky

[arpthark]

I'd say at least 2 tubas for 50+ piece band. More tubas for a larger group. Here's the thing --- tubas play a little different role in concert bands than in orchestras. Tubas ARE the basses in concert bands. Imo, the tuba sound should be very full, and dark and heavy and smooth, almost like a section of string basses. You feel the sound as much as hear it. Not as 'blatant' as the orchestral tuba sound, which only has one tuba, which is the bridge between the trombones and the string basses.

So, lots of deep bottom tuba sound in concert bands, but not too blatant or chunky

This is why I've really been enjoying playing a 6/4 BBb in the rep we've been doing lately in my band - lots of older 20th century stuff wherein the tuba is a true bass. And yes, it's even more fun when I'm the only tuba and get to drive the bus a bit.

[bloke]

@arpthark

I can get (what I suspect I understand to be) a pretty authentic Sousa bass sound out of fat bastard (and for years and years I've had the pluck-decay fake pizzicato thing mastered), but I can also crank him up when there are those John Williams battle scene 16th note descending runs and such.

This type of stuff are some of the reasons why I sort of jumped at the chance of playing with this band... It's different playing, but yeah I still think that one competent player can suffice.

When playing with other tuba players in wind bands, one of my little pet peeves is when other tuba players play 6/8 marches (length and style of events played on the beat) as if they are duple meter marches... but - again - I'm an old man, so I'm crotchety and grumpy.

[Finetales]

I think 2 and 2 is the magic number. Any less and it's not full enough (plus no divisi), any more and it's not as tight. Of course a huge band you probably want more, but I also don't like huge bands!

For a concert band, I prefer the following brass:

- 4 horns (+an assistant if you must)
- 6 trumpets, all of which also actually play cornet on cornet parts
- 3 tenor trombones
- 1 bass trombone
- 2 euphs
- 2 tubas

If you decide to play something huge like Barnes 3 or Dionysiaques you can bring in more players. (You need at least 8 trumpeters for Barnes 3, IIRC) But for most rep I think the above instrumentation is perfect.

[anadmai]

A Brass Band has two Euphoniums, two Eb Basses and two BBb Basses for a standard band of circa twenty six players.

Most prefer the 2BBb and 3Ebs. Been that way for as long as I can remember.

[anadmai]

Our 65 piece community band

You're from Meadville!! Cool. I grew up in Franklin for a few years..

[DonO.]

Our 65 piece community band

You're from Meadville!! Cool. I grew up in Franklin for a few years..

Yes, I am a Meadville resident. My community band is called the Concert Band of Northwest Pennsylvania. Our home base and main rehearsal/concert site is PennWest University Edinboro campus. Formerly known as Edinboro University.