24AW Rim Modification

[Carlos Fandango]

Hi,

I've just started on Tuba last year after having to pack in the trombone due to a shoulder problem and a friend has lent me a couple of mouthpieces to try with my Martin Mammoth 3 valve BBb.

24AW
24W
Schilke 67

The sound of the 24AW is the best of the three sound wise , but I do like the flexibility the Schilke rim affords so was thinking of altering a different 24AW that's already had it's rim 'doctored' a little by it's previous owner .

Anyone on here already tried this , or have any thoughts.

Thanks!

[the elephant]

Did you ever contact Parker?

[arpthark]

What do you like about the 67 rim -- the fact that it's narrower, or the fact that it's a little flatter, or has a bit more of inner "bite"?

I think some companies (maybe Robert Tucci and Mercer & Barker) offer something that is like a Bach 24AW but with a less rounded/large rim. If it were me, I'd probably go that route.

But there's definitely nothing stopping you from experimenting if you have the means. Just keep in mind the cost of messing around with it and replating, and not being able to add material back if it gets too wonky for ya.

[bloke]

The epically wide rim is a stumbling block, but I've never felt like I could get enough of my face into one of those or enjoy enough resistance - due to the gigantic throat opening. For me, there's not much to like, but I've heard some players pick those things up and play like angels, so how can I possibly condemn them?

[2nd tenor]

Hi,

I've just started on Tuba last year after having to pack in the trombone due to a shoulder problem and a friend has lent me a couple of mouthpieces to try with my Martin Mammoth 3 valve BBb.

24AW
24W
Schilke 67

The sound of the 24AW is the best of the three sound wise , but I do like the flexibility the Schilke rim affords so was thinking of altering a different 24AW that's already had it's rim 'doctored' a little by it's previous owner .

Anyone on here already tried this , or have any thoughts.

Thanks!

My thoughts are don’t do it, you’ll end up with something that has no resale value and pay good money to do so.

You won’t go wrong with a Wick 2L (with large shank) or a Bach 18. The move from a Trombone mouthpiece to a Tuba mouthpiece is a challenge … see if a Bach 25 will work for you for a while.

[MikeS]

I think some companies (maybe Robert Tucci and Mercer & Barker) offer something that is like a Bach 24AW but with a less rounded/large rim. If it were me, I'd probably go that route.

The RT-40 is the closest thing I can think of to a 24AW with a useable rim.

[Carlos Fandango]

Did you ever contact Parker?

Hi, no I have a friend who can do it.

[Carlos Fandango]

What do you like about the 67 rim -- the fact that it's narrower, or the fact that it's a little flatter, or has a bit more of inner "bite"?

I think some companies (maybe Robert Tucci and Mercer & Barker) offer something that is like a Bach 24AW but with a less rounded/large rim. If it were me, I'd probably go that route.

But there's definitely nothing stopping you from experimenting if you have the means. Just keep in mind the cost of messing around with it and replating, and not being able to add material back if it gets too wonky for ya.

Hi , thanks for the input.

I'll speak to my friend who's played Tuba for a while about Tucci stuff.
The mouthpiece I was thinking of altering ( which I was gifted) has already been slightly altered so has no real value , I would do it to a mint one.

[Carlos Fandango]

Hi,

I've just started on Tuba last year after having to pack in the trombone due to a shoulder problem and a friend has lent me a couple of mouthpieces to try with my Martin Mammoth 3 valve BBb.

24AW
24W
Schilke 67

The sound of the 24AW is the best of the three sound wise , but I do like the flexibility the Schilke rim affords so was thinking of altering a different 24AW that's already had it's rim 'doctored' a little by it's previous owner .

Anyone on here already tried this , or have any thoughts.

Thanks!

My thoughts are don’t do it, you’ll end up with something that has no resale value and pay good money to do so.

You won’t go wrong with a Wick 2L (with large shank) or a Bach 18. The move from a Trombone mouthpiece to a Tuba mouthpiece is a challenge … see if a Bach 25 will work for you for a while.

Hi, thanks for the input .

The mouthpiece I was thinking of messing with ( which I was gifted) has already been altered very slightly so the plating is already off, and therefor has no real value.

You must have read my mind , as I have switched onto a Bach 18 that I bought a while back, it is much easier to move about on than the 24 which sort of 'locked' my chops up.

I originally started on a lovely old B&H Imperial 4 valve EEb that my friend who is a great Tech overhauled ( new sovereign pistons , guides , stops , Fletcher cut etc). Unfortunately, the shoulder problem that stopped me playing the trombone flared up big time from reaching round to the 4th valve so I sadly had to sell it. It was only by accident an old mate was selling the Martin , which with only three valves is proving great.

[Grumpikins]

Messing around with modifying an already altered mouthpiece is fine. But it will be more effective to ask around some more local tuba players to test out mouthpieces they have. A friend of mine loaned me 6 a few weeks ago and the schilke 67 really surprised me. Point being, the more options you can get your face on to try for cheap, they more likely you will find one that makes you go "oooohh!" Good luck.

[Carlos Fandango]

Messing around with modifying an already altered mouthpiece is fine. But it will be more effective to ask around some more local tuba players to test out mouthpieces they have. A friend of mine loaned me 6 a few weeks ago and the schilke 67 really surprised me. Point being, the more options you can get your face on to try for cheap, they more likely you will find one that makes you go "oooohh!" Good luck.

Funnily enough, after a couple of days trying a Bach 18 ( newish one, just says Vincent Bach) only to decide that A. I didn't like the rim at all
7 B. there was (for me) too little resistence that makes it hard to centre, I went back to a Shilke 67 that I have been loaned and Hey Presto...
I'd tried the 67 before but that was coming from a 24AW which couldn't be more different, coming at from the Bach 18 was a totally different experience. It's early days , but the initial signs are promising .

[Grumpikins]

Glad you've found something that's working for you. If you havent seen it, here's the link to the discussion I had on the forum a few weeks ago.

viewtopic.php?t=10576

Here's a link to some more related mp stuff.

viewtopic.php?t=10582

I'm quite happy with what I have now but i think I'll always be looking to try new things.

[2nd tenor]

Hi,

I've just started on Tuba last year after having to pack in the trombone due to a shoulder problem and a friend has lent me a couple of mouthpieces to try with my Martin Mammoth 3 valve BBb.

24AW
24W
Schilke 67

The sound of the 24AW is the best of the three sound wise , but I do like the flexibility the Schilke rim affords so was thinking of altering a different 24AW that's already had it's rim 'doctored' a little by it's previous owner .

Anyone on here already tried this , or have any thoughts.

Thanks!

My thoughts are don’t do it, you’ll end up with something that has no resale value and pay good money to do so.

You won’t go wrong with a Wick 2L (with large shank) or a Bach 18. The move from a Trombone mouthpiece to a Tuba mouthpiece is a challenge … see if a Bach 25 will work for you for a while.

Hi, thanks for the input .

The mouthpiece I was thinking of messing with ( which I was gifted) has already been altered very slightly so the plating is already off, and therefor has no real value.

You must have read my mind , as I have switched onto a Bach 18 that I bought a while back, it is much easier to move about on than the 24 which sort of 'locked' my chops up.

I originally started on a lovely old B&H Imperial 4 valve EEb that my friend who is a great Tech overhauled ( new sovereign pistons , guides , stops , Fletcher cut etc). Unfortunately, the shoulder problem that stopped me playing the trombone flared up big time from reaching round to the 4th valve so I sadly had to sell it. It was only by accident an old mate was selling the Martin , which with only three valves is proving great.

Apologies, it’s been a long time since I last logged in so your response went unnoticed.

The Eb Imperial's are nice instruments and as well as four valve compensating instruments they were (are via second hand) available as three valve compensating instruments. Compensating is obviously better, but that said my own three valve non-compensating Eb Tuba has made a lot of good music - it’s what you do with what you have that matters - and is a lot less physically demanding to shift around than my Sovereign (Eb, four valve, compensating, 19” bell).

They’re not widely used and available here in the UK (Wick’s are what most folk use here) but I think the Bach 18’s are a generally good piece ; for a three valve Eb you’d get by with something a little smaller - sacrifice a a tiny bit of tone for easier playing. A three valve BBb really needs something near the Bach 18 size, well that’s my opinion. Mouthpiece selection is a process of matching piece, player and instrument; sometimes you have to try quite a few combinations before you find a good enough match … and then we as players change over time. Some clever Brass Technicians have added forth valves to three valve instruments and no doubt some could adapt a standard 3+1 layout to give easier operation.

Some people are able to get false tones on their three valve tubas, that’s a neat trick if you can do it.

A three valve BBb is going to cover an awful lot of the stave. Whilst I prefer the Eb Tubas to the BBb’s there are reasons why the BBb has become the more dominant of the two in North America.

[Carlos Fandango]

Thanks so much for your thoughtful and considered reply.
I'm sorry it's taken so long for me to reply.
Ultimately I found the Bach 18 rim shape din't fit my chops very well, Ive read elsewhere that the Blessing version has a slightly different profile, but they don't seem to come along too often this side of the pond.

After doing a lot of research I've just odered a Denis Wick AT4U mouthpiece to try. It's on a 30 day money back gaurentee so no worries if it doesn't work out.

The 3 valve BBb is a possible option , although I really like the Martin Mammoth I have and will just try to improve through practice on that for the time being.

[2nd tenor]

Thanks so much for your thoughtful and considered reply.
I'm sorry it's taken so long for me to reply.
Ultimately I found the Bach 18 rim shape din't fit my chops very well, Ive read elsewhere that the Blessing version has a slightly different profile, but they don't seem to come along too often this side of the pond.

After doing a lot of research I've just odered a Denis Wick AT4U mouthpiece to try. It's on a 30 day money back gaurentee so no worries if it doesn't work out.

The 3 valve BBb is a possible option , although I really like the Martin Mammoth I have and will just try to improve through practice on that for the time being.

Glad to hear you’re making progress and I hope the AT4U woks out for you, but if not then a plain 2L works for me and other folks too. The search for a perfect mouthpiece can be seemingly endless, darned expensive and sometimes even fruitless …

You mention a Martin Mammoth and unless I’m mistaken they’re a BBb, the Martin Monsters are Eb and a three valve Eb can produce a lot of good music (imho).

If the instrument you have is working for you then don’t change to another pitch.

[bloke]

I have an old beat up 24AW no-brand out in the shop to test repaired tubas and sousaphones. ... skinny cup, giant throat.

I have a not beat up Chinese no name / no markings Helleberg that is easier for me to play (still bad), which I'm tempted to take out there, but my philosophy/tack is this:
"If I can play an instrument with a 24AW, that means it WILL play, by golly."

[iiipopes]

Not a 24AW, but I have had the exterior rim of another mouthpiece narrowed: a Curry 128D. Similar to bloke, I couldn't get my face into it properly because it kept hitting my nose. After modification, I played it on my Bessophone until I sold the horn, and I didn't like the tone on other tubas. But that was years ago, when Dominique was still at Dillons. He may have retired. I have lost touch.

Several places will shave down the exterior, but you must know exactly what you want so these boutique shops know how to help you. Recently, Brett at Bob Reeves Brass has been helping me with some upper brass mouthpieces that needed alteration due to a line of scar tissue in my right-side lower jaw from a bad fall. I have been pleased with his work. His general mode is to send him both mouthpieces, the one you prefer the feel of and the one you would like altered to that feel. He will scan the one you like and CNC the one to be modified. I have been most pleased with his work because with his modifications I can again enjoy my high brass instruments that I could not get my embouchure re-built beforehand due to the outer edge of the mouthpiece damping my embouchure over the line of scar tissue.