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Totally agree. I have a relative that has a DMA from USC. She has never held a job down in the last 12 yrs. She's essentially stay at home parent, with one child. Her husband works film/tv production in LA.

If we look at IU Jacobs, per the state legislature, it will be 30% of what it is now, in 5 yrs.

Looking at the current consolidated tuba/euphonium studio. Sorry, y'all obviously don't meet the physical appearance standards to enlist in the military bands. It's that simple.

Something I encourage to my students looking at performance (mainly those who are looking at graduate studies but works either way)—look for somewhere in a metro area where you can get connected and be willing to travel for gigs.

You learn so much from just playing. I’ve seen posts about people refusing to buy a car and just rely on public transit and then are unable to take gigs a couple hours away for orchestras. For those wanting to get orchestral experience, even playing in non ICSOM orchestras is the best way to actually sound like you know what you are doing when a big job pops up. Or better yet, take non-classical gigs.

But ignore me. The ability to play 20 excerpts all day in a practice room is all you apparently need…

Or better yet, take non-classical gigs..

College children go straight from high school band/orchestra into college.
Both teach paint-by-number music. Every subtlety not indicated on a piece of paper is coached, rather than encouraging students to be able to figure these sorts of things out intuitively. Young people are taught to look at a piece of paper, combine that with coached feigned emotion, and become a human machine which reproduces the instructions as if the human being is a player piano with a piano roll installed.
Even most of what is referred to as "jazz" in colleges is merely a style, rather than a creative craft or an art. At least 90% of that is still reading notes off of a piece of paper (okay: "tablet").
I admit that some types of music which don't involve pieces of paper are completely memorized very specific "notes" and almost as the musicians are reading pieces of paper. This would probably include Celtic, bluegrass, pop/rock cover bands, and some others, but at least those types of musicians are learning from hearing and imitating, rather than merely looking at instructions on pieces of paper and pushing buttons according to what the pieces of paper say.

For very short period of time in American history, a few musicians became fairly well off playing notes off the page recording music for television shows and recordings sold in stores, while remaining basically anonymous, but that's about the only example I know of anyone ever doing really well reading notes off of a piece of paper and playing them.

More and more today, regular music engagements are per service, and regular teaching engagements are adjunct... All of this, combined with the fact that - between 2021 and 2024 - so many US dollars were printed by the Fed that it they are now worth just about half when it comes to buying most things that people buy.

... I haven't even gone into how much music is now synthetically created (both composed and performed).

Music is a pretty good and very enjoyable sideline, playing music is very good for mental health, and getting home from a good-paying job - doing some very in demand blue collar work, and then sitting down and playing an instrument - is infinitely better for the human mind than plugging a television set or social media scrolling into one's brain... and weekend paid engagements (or non-paid) are a fringe benefit of that, when a person is particularly talented and inclined.

As a pro, I wouldn’t say playing music is good for mental health. I’d say the exact opposite. So many though spend so much time in the practice rooms and get the degrees only to find other work when they don’t win the dream orchestral job. Some advance far and are close but don’t do what it takes to achieve it.

With that being said, as I have been told by a “Kollij” kid when helping someone list a horn to don’t downplay it as a good CC for college to start on (I use the model as a pro), and was told that no one playing in orchestras uses this model or size…and yet this week I’m getting paid to play this model in a pro orchestra, and make more money doing “popular”, non-traditional music. Harvey really did have it right…

russiantuba wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2026 9:33 am (snip)
With that being said, as I have been told by a “Kollij” kid ...
(snip)

I'm sorry - what's a “Kollij” kid?

If most of someone's music isn't fun (doesn't promote good mental health), most of someone's music might not be music.

I always ask the same question of a high school student who is wondering where the best college is to transform them into a professional musician. I ask them where they are gigging now. If they are not constantly gigging at that age, there is no hope for them. You may disagree, though I don't know why, but if you are not good enough by then to perform for money in public, you will never likely be good enough to get a job later.

LibraryMark wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2026 9:56 am

russiantuba wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2026 9:33 am (snip)
With that being said, as I have been told by a “Kollij” kid ...
(snip)

I'm sorry - what's a “Kollij” kid?

It is a colloquialism around here for “College”. I believe on the old old days on the boards, you would get some of these college kids that would have an ego the size of a Rudy Meinl 6/4, with a world class tone, but couldn’t even spell “college” correctly.

Richard III wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2026 10:14 am I always ask the same question of a high school student who is wondering where the best college is to transform them into a professional musician. I ask them where they are gigging now. If they are not constantly gigging at that age, there is no hope for them. You may disagree, though I don't know why, but if you are not good enough by then to perform for money in public, you will never likely be good enough to get a job later.

I believe what this person is trying to say is that there is too much to master as a working musician in only four years whereby two years of it (in a non-conservatory university situation) is non-music-related gobbledygoop.

I began earning money as a musician at age 15, though not playing the tuba. Admittedly, I didn't begin making money as a tuba player until I was 17... but my closest friends - in my very low income / low social status school district - were playing their high school band instruments at a professional level, and two of them went directly into (no college, and one of them with no private instruction) military bands which were higher grade then regular base bands: one who went into a band in Norfolk Virginia formerly known as the Continental Army Band and another went into Pershing's Own in DC. (The one who went into the DC band was a tuba player, and the instrument he had to audition with in the 12th grade was a Conn fiberglass model 36k sousaphone.). They had a pretty good motivation for pushing themselves very hard and developing their talents to a professional level: the draft and the Vietnam war were still in force. ie: somewhat of a matter of life or death.

A young musician with any hope of success who pursues a performance degree (a degree program which often leads to very little performing) should be putting the finishing touches on their playing, rather than learning and developing (or correcting) the fundamentals of playing.

"I hate school but I like band" is probably not a particularly good reason for becoming a music or music performance major in college. Admittedly, those two friends of mine hated school just as much as I did, yet they made very good grades in their academic courses.

Richard III wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2026 10:14 am I always ask the same question of a high school student who is wondering where the best college is to transform them into a professional musician. I ask them where they are gigging now. If they are not constantly gigging at that age, there is no hope for them.

Huh. I didn't gig much in high school, and I turned out what many might consider a pretty noteworthy career. "No hope" indeed.

Something I tell my students who want to go into performance is "What else interests you besides performance".

I always feel bad asking that, because I realize I subconsciously give off the vibe that I don't have confidence in them making it. This is actually opposite of the fact--I say this because I want them to make it and this is how you make it. It is quite rare I encourage and support a student to go into performance.

One of my employers (Ohio Northern University) has created two new programs in the past several years--one being a pre-med with a focus in music, but the other one, which is attracting students, is sound recording technology. I have told students looking at graduate studies at my other school that there will always be gigs for doing sound and recording and to look at TA positions in that, but not always opportunities for tuba. They can stay active every night of the week if they choose doing sound at various events. I should mention our horn professor did his undergrad at ONU in music and a mathematical field and did his MM at the Frost School of Music right after, is an amazing hornist, and is working in the field using his math degree while staying active musically.

(I will mention too that the guy who won the Coast Guard Band Euphonium position, Matthew Yee, was a Civil Engineering major at Valpo under the late Richard Watson and did a BA in Music. He beat out a whole slew of graduate performance majors).

And yet even some of those who succeed in securing a tenured academic position at a university move on.
The man who started the New Horizons program at the U of AZ got tenure a couple years ago, has a fascinating dissertation (I looked it up) on a topic that is not underwater basket weaving, and he is leaving. Somewhat closed-mouth so far about what he has chosen to do next, but has spent considerable time in Japan and I have my suspicions.
I know from having had professor friends that academia is unbelievably political, and there are those who just say bye-bye. My own experience as a paid pro was basically "there just HAS to be something better than this," and there was.

Music IS good for my mental health, but only because I do it for meditation and recreation.

Mary Ann wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2026 2:03 pmMusic IS good for my mental health, but only because I do it for meditation and recreation.

I mostly only pay for remuneration (*with a few rare exceptions of my own choosing), but I believe one of the reasons why I enjoy it (as well as shrug my shoulder when thought-to-be regular/permanent engagements are discontinued...and there's really no such thing as a forever gig, as some gigs are steady, but none are forever) is because I walk away from it and only am "engaged" 8 - 12 times a month, rather than 20 or more times per month.

I also believe that playing some engagements - whereby all of the so-called "notes" that play are my own decisions - also promotes good mental health.

compliments?
I pass those out to others, thank contractors and bandleaders for jobs, and graciously accept them, but (obviously) I always personally know whether or not I did my best, and/or whether not-quite-my-best (due to health, physical fatigue, or whatever) was plenty good enough.
ie. I play much more for myself, and not for the admiration of others, though (sure) pleasing others is always a feel-good.
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*I had to temporarily drop out of that "mostly band directors" wind band about which I posted roughly a year ago (one fall concert/one spring concert/everything on Tuesdays - including concerts) due to a heavy workload, but this spring (as they allowed me to step away without being fired ) I believe I can work it back in...and (having made a decision to not sign an annual contract with a per service orchestra again this year - as it required staying overnight for two nights for each engagement...) this band-thing gives me a couple of annual handfuls of opportunities to pull out Fat Bastard, and give him some strenuous laps around the track.