TubaForum.net

Greetings.
I have a couple old Miraphone tubas: a CC186 5U and a Eb183 5U. They both have red rot on the leadpipes. I contacted Miraphone and they gave me part numbers for Nickel-Silver leadpipes: CC 003612200004 Eb 0036122000010

In addition, I want to improve the 5th valve pivot on the CC 186. Miraphone suggested part number 00312001214. I have to order through a dealer. Does anyone have a lead on any of these parts?
Thanks

If you order a 186C mouthpipe, you had better order a (wider) new bell-to-upper-bow brace, as this geometry was changed quite a few years ago, and I'm wagering that your instrument is of the old geometry.

Here's another option:
Many of the old 86 mouth pipe tubes which are rotten are mostly only rotten on the portion which wraps around the bell.

If you've looked at Meinl-Weston 20 and 25 mouth pipes, they are two piece, and solder together just past the bell. I have avoided having to sell customers new 86 mouth pipes by splicing on a replacement part in the same way. The small diameter portion of the mouth pipe that wraps around the bell ending at the receiver is not difficult to bend. Further, there are (repair shop only) domestically supplied generic tapered tubes in that diameter range that replace the Miraphone original quite well.

Thanks, bloke
That's good info to have. I'll have to look at that brace to see what you mean. I bought that horn in 1982.

Old style bell braces are two pieces of nickel brass sheet metal contact braised to each other back to back - thus only spacing the bell out the width of the sheet metal X 2.

Later, they added a spacer between the two pieces of sheet metal which defined the brace as wider. Once that was done, they had to change the geometry of the mouth pipe.

If there is little to no red rot past the smaller bore portion that wraps around the bell, I would seriously consider the cut and splice.

Had I not done that myself to an expensive instrument that I owned personally, I wouldn't recommend considering it.

In the past, I owned a Rudy 5/4 C with five rotors and a second slide trigger. It played remarkably well in tune as long as one operated the first slide and the second slide as needed.

Those who have played the really old ones know that the small end of the mouth pipe ends quite large, requiring a tremendous amount of energy from the player without benefiting from really any more sound.

I got up my courage, cut that pipe (not rotted, just huge) in the place described previously, installed a threaded appliance that was airtight, and ended up with two small ends of that mouth pipe that could be interchanged: the original, and a more modern tapered one that resulted in a standard shank receiver.
As you might guess, I preferred the one that I made which was smaller, but the original could easily be put right back on with the threaded connection and the detachable receiver brace that I installed.

Unlike what I just described above, if you decided to go this route with a permanent replacement of the smaller portion of the mouth pipe (as the one that you would cut away is rotten anyway) you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

^^^

@bloke speaks the truth.

This leadpipe splice worked well on my BBb 186 that had red rot in the pipe. The big end isn’t perfect but much better than the small half was.

York-aholic wrote: Sat Feb 07, 2026 9:10 am ^^^

@bloke speaks the truth.

This leadpipe splice worked well on my BBb 186 that had red rot in the pipe. The big end isn’t perfect but much better than the small half was.

Did you end up using that pipe I sent?

Did you happen to save that dent ball that was stuck in it?

I’m so sorry. Yes, I used it. I have your dent ball and the king parts we talked about, all in a box waiting for me to get to the post office. I’m sorry it’s taken me this long. I’ve taken Monday off to take the Misses to a post op appointment so will commit to getting there then!!!

Sorry.

My 1960 186Cc has patches on the leadpipe. It works.

They sure must have had a lot of zinc in them back in the day. Maybe recycled casings?

prodigal wrote: Sat Feb 07, 2026 6:00 pm My 1960 186Cc has patches on the leadpipe. It works.

They sure must have had a lot of zinc in them back in the day. Maybe recycled casings?

Nah, it's spit running down to the mouth pipe on that horizontal part when people rested them on theirvbells after they were through playing them.

Later, the combination of nickel brass mouthpipes and everyone thinking they have to use a tuba stand (because manufacturers started selling tuba stands ) eliminated the problem.

Using a whole bunch more oil would have just about eliminated the problem as well.

I'm using so much oil that where I'm sitting is a slip zone/ hazmat incident.

I got a gallon of good quality lamp oil for $4. Win, win!

yeah...I have to wipe oil off the exteriors of my instruments - occasionally - as well...

...That's a good sign that we're using almost enough.