TubaForum.net

We've all seen forgeries of Mark VI saxophones, Les Paul guitars, Bach Stradivarius trumpets, sports equipment and all sorts of things...

...not knock-offs, but full-blown forgeries (with the name and everything engraved on them).

A FEW of the forgeries (and I've encountered a few like this) are every bit as good as the real thing, but - yet - are not the real thing.

I just saw where an American company (known historically by us for many models of tubas, but not-so-much now) just introduced a (NOT-a-tuba) new model of woodwind.

big deal...anniversary of the founding of the company, etc...limited production, and all that stuff...

The cosmetics and engraving - other than a few fancy touches - reflect instruments made by that company 70 - 90 years ago, but the actual set up and structure of the instrument is actually like modern-era instruments.

You read down and it says something like "parts made overseas, but assembled in the United States".

"Assembled" could mean as little as "wrapped in plastic, and put into a case".

...so - even though licensed and sold by the company that now owns the name - wouldn't all us us consider such an instrument to be a - de facto - forgery?

Were it that someone was interested in one (as only XXX are going to be made and sold) would the strategy be to wait until all are made/sold, and then wait a couple of years for them to be offered with "Schiller Elite" engraved on them?

I should think that "forgery" would depend upon they way it is marketed. I do agree that more honesty about the manufacturing should occur.

bloke wrote: Sat Nov 08, 2025 4:03 pm ...

You read down and it says something like "parts made overseas, but assembled in the United States".

"Assembled" could mean as little as "wrapped in plastic, and put into a case".

...so - even though licensed and sold by the company that now owns the name - wouldn't all us us consider such an instrument to be a - de facto - forgery?

...

There is a company in Germany called Sandberg Guitars. They have a more economical line that is parts made in Indonesia or Korea (likely by Cort) and assembled in Germany. For that company, they really do assemble them in Germany in the same factory as the all German made models. At least that is my understanding. I have 2 Sandberg VS Electra basses and they are exceptional instruments.

It's a way to duck tariffs. Then it's not a Chinese instrument (in the eyes of tax code). Business always finds a way . . .

Very easy:
Me importing REAL Blokepieces from Bloke and selling them to the Austrian market can´t be forgery, because the customer is getting the real thing.
Me copying Blokepieces myself and selling them as the real thing would be forgery.

Bloke himself outsourcing Blokepiece production from next door´s family-owned machining shop to Indonesian facilities promising to only use children held in free-range facilities who are fed almost-organic chow (guaranteed) is widely accepted and a healthy application of capitalism, but forgery it is not.

Companies being allowed to market "packed in the presence of US citizens" as "Made in the USA" ain´t forgery, either: It´s a result of revered, consistent, and goal oriented de-regulation of business.

bottom line:

- There haven't been any saxophones made in the USA for quite a few years.
- There still are not, in spite of schmoozy advertising.

(The last of those which were still made in the USA were...well...crap...and even one of those "drifted" over into Mexico before being completely discontinued.)