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Alex 163 question

Valves 1-4 have 16 stamped on them

The 5th is stamped 12

What is the Alexander meaning for these numbers, or is it just a batch number.

Workbench number: This implies (but by no means confirms) that your 5th valve was added after the horn was completed. The worker at bench 16 built it, and then worker 12 added the 5th valve later, either at a later date for a customer who wanted it added, or as a custom item added to the horn before it was shipped out. It could also mean that the horn was built by two workers as a team, and 12 did the 5th valve as a part of that.

That makes complete sense. I’m guessing when it was built, because I’ve never played an Alex with a first valve set up like mine.

Kctuba wrote: Fri Oct 24, 2025 2:16 pm That makes complete sense. I’m guessing when it was built, because I’ve never played an Alex with a first valve set up like mine.

Can you post pics of the horn?

Up until I received this logical explanation, I always thought the numbers on rotor casings were numerological digits - referring to Masonic mysticism.

The Alexander company buys their valves from an outsource - the same as their bells. The numbers stamped on the valve is a way to keep the valves organized, that's all. From 1975 on, the top plate of the second valve shows the serial number. When a tuba is ordered, the craftsman eventually takes a set of valves out of a box - which means the serial numbers aren't so organized. I was the first American in the new factory in 2011. I was in the room where two tubas were being constructed, an F and a Kaiser CC. I asked specifically about the numbers stamped on the side of the valve. Yes, if the fifth valve is a different number, it was added as part of the order. My Alex from 1963 cost $450 brand new. It had a fifth valve added for $45, and it all came with a hard case and mouthpiece. There was one guy building out both tubas during my visit. The other half dozen or so craftsmen were doing other work, mostly related to their horn production, which is much greater than their tubas - which is about 5% of what they sell. Feel free to check with my friend and source, Reimund Pankratz, who runs the day-to-day operations. There is so much myth around Alexander tubas that is mostly false.

Alexander outsources their tuba bells?

Here is a link to a pic. Sorry for the delay.

arpthark wrote: Thu Nov 06, 2025 12:45 pm Alexander outsources their tuba bells?

That's really not uncommon in Germany now and in the past.

A lot of towns where instruments were made had little specialty shops that made parts. Gronitz tubas were really franken horns, according to a few notable repairmen I've spoken with from Germany. He made very little in house but built the instruments really well and bought really good parts. As those little shops died off, and parts became more expensive or unavailable, some of the brands also died off.

I would not be terribly surprised if it isn't Bernd Sadner making them. https://schallstueck.de/english/
For Instance, he makes Thein's bells but has an exclusivity contract with them on the mandrels and production. You can order bells directly from him, and they are really fine bells. He's an excellent craftsman.

aarongsmith wrote: Mon Dec 15, 2025 1:37 pm

arpthark wrote: Thu Nov 06, 2025 12:45 pm Alexander outsources their tuba bells?

That's really not uncommon in Germany now and in the past.

A lot of towns where instruments were made had little specialty shops that made parts. Gronitz tubas were really franken horns, according to a few notable repairmen I've spoken with from Germany. He made very little in house but built the instruments really well and bought really good parts. As those little shops died off, and parts became more expensive or unavailable, some of the brands also died off.

I would not be terribly surprised if it isn't Bernd Sadner making them. https://schallstueck.de/english/
For Instance, he makes Thein's bells but has an exclusivity contract with them on the mandrels and production. You can order bells directly from him, and they are really fine bells. He's an excellent craftsman.

This is really interesting, thanks!

bloke wrote: Sun Nov 02, 2025 2:37 pm Up until I received this logical explanation, I always thought the numbers on rotor casings were numerological digits - referring to Masonic mysticism.

They are not mutually exclusive. Work bench 12 could have been a mystic, and 16 a mason?