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In 2014 I loaned my Cleveland H.N. White for a gig, and he bought it from me immediately thereafter and that was that, until he emailed me a couple weeks ago asking if I wanted to buy it back.
I've spent the intervening time hoping he wouldn't change his mind and sell it to someone else until my schedule allowed me to drive out yesterday and retrieve it. I haven't played it yet, but I noticed some details that I'd previously overlooked or forgotten.

These pictures might interest the Cleveland/H.N.White historians among us:
Looks in overall good shape; bell collar, horn, and valves all serial-match (1960 build per H.N. White Cleveland chart)


I don't know if White made A & B versions, but if so, this looks like the smaller-collar A version (with 24" bell)


I can't recall if a one-piece bell is the difference between old vs. newer Cleveland or between King vs. Cleveland models, but my (1940s) King 1261 was the smoother "one-piece" vs. this 1960 Cleveland.



Don't recall seeing this shape of main tuning brace on other Cleveland pics that folks have uploaded.


Likewise, don't recall having seen this "marching band" Cleveland logo.


And I thought that the first top slide was pullable on Clevelands, but maybe just on the earlier, pre-White Clevelands?

Sorry, none of your pics are loading for me. It says that I need to request access to view.

arpthark wrote: Mon Jun 09, 2025 12:52 pm Sorry, none of your pics are loading for me. It says that I need to request access to view.

Thanks for the headsup.
I modified the default "restricted" to "anyone", but don't know if that's sufficient or if I'll have to update the links in the post.
Please let me know if you still can't see them.

I can see the pictures. Cool horn--congratulations on getting it back!

tokuno wrote: Mon Jun 09, 2025 1:08 pm

arpthark wrote: Mon Jun 09, 2025 12:52 pm Sorry, none of your pics are loading for me. It says that I need to request access to view.

Thanks for the headsup.
I modified the default "restricted" to "anyone", but don't know if that's sufficient or if I'll have to update the links in the post.
Please let me know if you still can't see them.

I could not see them at first, either. But, after you changed the permissions, I can view them now.

tokuno wrote: Mon Jun 09, 2025 1:08 pm

arpthark wrote: Mon Jun 09, 2025 12:52 pm Sorry, none of your pics are loading for me. It says that I need to request access to view.

Thanks for the headsup.
I modified the default "restricted" to "anyone", but don't know if that's sufficient or if I'll have to update the links in the post.
Please let me know if you still can't see them.

Works now, thanks! Cool horn!

tokuno wrote: Mon Jun 09, 2025 12:46 pm I can't recall if a one-piece bell is the difference between old vs. newer Cleveland or between King vs. Cleveland models, but my (1940s) King 1261 was the smoother "one-piece" vs. this 1960 Cleveland.

Likely a cost cutting measure, having that seam silver brazed and smooth versus ferruled and soft-soldered. Early King sousas and recording bell tubas had the one-piece bells, and later after the move to Eastlake (if I recall correctly), you started to see the two-piece bells.

Cleveland were basically King with an inch less bell radius, tuning in the wide bow (as with Conn) and the economy bell construction (that King resorted to later and to the present...ie. soldered vs. brazed seam from the elbow the flare).

Those as good, as long as their pistons aren't worn out (same as any other old-old sousaphones).

I have a 1959 King, which is fairly comparable I think: top of my first valve slide is not pullableeither. I note with interest that additional brace near the tuning silde, the lone brace joint on the other side of my tuning slide is prone to breaking solder joints.

Cleveland was the budget/economy line of HN White (King).
Still, a great HN White sousa.
Just like Pan American was for Conn, Grand Rapids Band Inst. for York, etc.

Aside from a few mostly cosmetic differences (ferrules, bell construction, main tuning slide, etc. it's the same bugle as the 1250 and later 2350 sousas.

The 1250 sousa went thru some minor cosmetic changes after HN White (King) was sold to Seeburg Corporation in 1965, and then became King Musical Instruments until about 1980, then sold a couple times before becoming part of UMI in 1985. After 2000, UMI (King) was folded into Conn-Selmer.