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Tofu accurately stated: "But along the way the academics took over more and more and they seemed to squeeze out the folks like Harvey in shaping the group agenda. The journal became bloated with pages and pages of past performance recital programs. Who cares???"

As someone who was in on TUBA from the start (as a student of HP but a business/foreign language major), I lament how the organization was hijacked by the academics, bringing with them all the useless baggage academia has to offer.*

HP could play in any style from opera/orchestra to Dixieland and modern jazz. When I quit ITEA, the Journal had devolved into a bunch of college professors fawning over one another's performances of esoteric recital music, most of which had little interest outside the closed circle created by the academic community. The lack of knowledge--let alone respect--many of these academics had for HP was disgusting. Yes, the .edu crowd squeezed HP out, and ITEA continues to pay the price. If you are so inclined, look at their past couple of 990s and see the consequences of their self-centered behavior.
HP was saddened by the devolution of TUBA into ITEA but didn't care to fight it, and later lacked the strength to fight it.

Let ITEA drown in its own smug conceit.



*Q:"But Jim, you were a college professor for almost 40 years, weren't you?" A: Yes, but I taught a useful subject (finance and data analysis) and had wonderful students who saw through the crap they were fed in other classes. For all those years I was IN that academic world, but never, for not even one second, was I OF that academic world.

At the risk of offending some, here's another personal opinion:

ITEA touts its love of "inclusivity." Does it practice what it preaches? Are high school students included? Are amateur players included? Are beginners included? Are band directors included? Are community band players included? What other groups are excluded?
All that seems to be included are college professors, wanna-be college professors, and some orchestra players/wanna-be orchestral players.
ITEA's definition of "inclusion" seems to be rather limited.
Just an opinion. Evaluate as you see fit.

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Jim Williams wrote: Thu May 15, 2025 3:09 pm At the risk of offending some, here's another personal opinion:

ITEA touts its love of "inclusivity." Does it practice what it preaches? Are high school students included? Are amateur players included? Are beginners included? Are band directors included? Are community band players included? What other groups are excluded?
All that seems to be included are college professors, wanna-be college professors, and some orchestra players/wanna-be orchestral players.
ITEA's definition of "inclusion" seems to be rather limited.
Just an opinion. Evaluate as you see fit.

They had a day at the 2023 ITEC in Tucson that was supposed to give continuing education credit to music educators. This was the week of high school graduations and final exams. Remember, I asked a month before, knowing we were going to be in Arizona shortly after this event and could have moved our trip around, and they hadn’t released a performing artist list. It seems I didn’t miss much.

An idea I would have for a presentation is “what tubas to buy for your program”. Feature several vendors already there, and you might get band directors not buying YBB 321S in bulk because they are “music educator approved”.

MiBrassFS wrote: Fri May 16, 2025 3:43 am
No.

I tried to take a group of high school and middle school students (about 25 of them) to a regional. We were told that each student, parent, and sibling regardless of age had to join ITEA as full members and pay the full registration fee to attend.

The group decided to not attend.

I went, walked into the exhibit area, did a bit of business with a friend, briefly listened to another friend’s presentation, and walked out without registering. The kids minding the registration table were looking at their devices and horsing around and never looked up.

Pffft.

I got my wife in one of the earlier ones I did to record and was hit with a lot of resistance. I said I needed recordings and that she had no interest in anything else music related except to ensure I didn’t walk out with a new tuba or spend too much on supplies.

Yeah, I mentioned that to a colleague last week who was beyond shocked that the tuba conferences don’t offer recordings for their artists.

So any group wanting to feature a high school tuba euphonium ensemble (or include trombones) to hear low brass musicians perform would be out a couple hundred dollars per kid (plus the chance to meet professors they might want to study with). Maybe under 18 gets in free?

russiantuba wrote: Sun May 18, 2025 12:42 pm ...the tuba conferences don’t offer recordings for their artists.

Ardent new kollij perfeser's 25 minute mini-recital doesn't go as planned. Fortunately, no-one's the wiser.

UncleBeer wrote: Sun May 18, 2025 2:35 pm

russiantuba wrote: Sun May 18, 2025 12:42 pm ...the tuba conferences don’t offer recordings for their artists.

Ardent new kollij perfeser's 25 minute mini-recital doesn't go as planned. Fortunately, no-one's the wiser.

Theirs generally go pretty well, it's mine that I'm thankful there's no evidence other than a line on my CV

jtuba wrote: Sun May 18, 2025 5:13 pm

Theirs generally go pretty well

We must have attended different conferences.

Were it that all conference recitals were recorded and permanently uploaded, I wonder if the number of those requesting recitals would go up, go down, or remain the same.

Just remember, everyone presenting also has to be an ITEA member AND pay the conference fee, which may or may not be slightly reduced (some have, some haven’t).

Judging competitions doesn’t pay nor get any additional discounts. Normally, those judging have to spend extra time, which means an extra night in a hotel, and paying for more parking.

Keep in mind, there are full time tenure track positions that don’t cover most of these costs. So there was a big name at an international conference that I believe was to put their own funding in to perform and got denied…someone who was sharing the concert with a foreign major orchestra principal tubist who was more likely to be putting their own money in…

I’ve suggested having a big name at each conference. Find a way to get Gene Pokorny at MWRTEC and pay him. Get David Childs at SCRTEC. Get international soloists. Waive the fee. I can near guarantee the people willing to pay $50 to attend and hear him will make up the difference.

There isn't much sympathy for vendors, as there's a lot of contempt - particularly in America, and particularly in the arts crowd - for free enterprise, but the cost of hauling stuff (vehicle rental/insurance/fuel), the booth cost, the hotel and meals cost, all combined with the competitive low markup prices that have become the norm... (along with closing down ones regular operations for several days)

.... pretty much define that (not just a few hundred bucks of accessories, but) a fairly expensive tuba (perhaps two of them) need(s) to be sold out of a booth in order to only lose a few hundred dollars to do one of these things, and obviously there's no hope of covering paying one's self a salary for the days involved.

Additionally, at least one or two instruments are going to end up scratched and dented and all of them were going to have to be chem-cleaned. Otherwise (if not chem-cleaned) if they're put back in stock for sale they're going to all end up with "spit lock" (valves).

I know a lot of vendors still do it, but I believe it's because they feel like they need to meet some customers face to face, and not because they think they're going to come out on the good side financially...and you might say that the big vendors can come out better than the little vendors, but actually the big vendors have three or four people on staff at these things, buy double or triple booths, end up with even more damage, and have to clean even more instruments...so it's sort of the same thing for them as with the smaller ones.

Again, if there wasn't some benefit they wouldn't go, but it's pretty tough...and I suspect the draw for these events - for the attendees - is as much or more the elephant room as any or everything else.

Pretty much, I suspect that the two largest draws for tuba shindigs are
- an impressive and well stocked elephant room
- recitalists who are known to most tuba players as being top tier players (particularly if they are both known as soloists and prominent orchestral players)

... I also suspect that if at least one of the booths features some brand new super hyped model that no one has played before, that's good for a few dozen additional attendees.

In 1982, 9 years after high school I'd just started playing tuba again when the junior college Mirafone was stolen from my loaner Volkswagen. My roommate had a T.U.B.A. journal and I sent a letter to a guy and he wrote back-Norm Bartold- and soon I was on a redeye Greyhound to buy my first tuba-suffice to say theres a lot more to that story including about some tuba world history experience I'd have never got elsewise or frankly since. Years later I missed a local-enough-to-me Denver ITEA (I think that's what it was) and was miffed because I knew the names of all the players that were there, all the names, never heard what it was like and now-a-days when the ITEA comes up for discussion here I have pretty much always stayed silent, hopefully and respectfully and I believe usually just like that small handful of teachers with studios that I know and respect as players and men.
The parallel with the Tubenet of 25 years ago does not escape me. After Y2K I remember taking a break at summer chamber music camp to log onto tubienet...was it still dial-up at the school?...to see what previously-unknown-to-me Holton owner had appeared to tell a story. Sad irony how advertisers touting "Rolls-Royce" in the early 80's evolved into "pretty good for the price" in that now-not-so-new-anymore third millennium.

I have to join before i can decide to renew, right?

I'm more curious on the subject line behavior when they are changed: will it reflect the OP? Or most recent post?

I am also curious if the windjammers group still meets in florida to play circus music, as the one group i remember reading about on the old forum thinking i wanted to join, but was too lazy.

I fixed the subject line. Thanks for pointing it out

I was looking at some YouTube videos of HBCU "sousaphone battles" when my grandson came in the room. He was mesmerized by the audio and video and asks for "tuba-tuba" when the TV is on.

It struck me that this type of tuba playing has "made more friends for the tuba" than any college tuba recital or organization of college tuba professors ever did, and that this type of tuba playing attracts an audience many hundreds of times larger than any college tuba recital or organization of college tuba professors ever will.

An organization may choose to make additional inroads into (niche) markets it already serves--market penetration, or it may choose to reach new consumers--market development. An organization is not entitled to cry poverty if it chooses to cater to its small niche market more intensively rather than seek new customers in a wider market. If the organization is unable or unwilling to serve a wider audience, it should maintain its small profile and not complain about its small market size.

ITEA: any interest in featuring these groups?

I'm not sure that I could guess on that one. My guess is that they're not quite that inclusive.

humBell wrote: Fri Jun 20, 2025 9:03 am

I am also curious if the windjammers group still meets in florida to play circus music, as the one group i remember reading about on the old forum thinking i wanted to join, but was too lazy.

Several members of one of my groups were heavily involved in Windjammers including being President, treasurer, secretary , IT etc for decades. Windjammers meets twice a year. In the winter it’s at RIngling Bros Winter home in Florida and in the summer I believe it moves around a bit as I know we hosted it here once or twice but I think a lot of the times it’sat - the summer home of Ringling Bros & home of the Great Circus World Museum in Baraboo WI. This year it’s in Gainesville Georgia - starting July 15th -20th

Baraboo is a great place to visit and next door to Circus World is Mid-Continent Railroad Museum and of course the Wisconsin Dells and the area is beautiful. Mid-Continent has the last remaining operable CNW steam engine (1285) which for decades pulled the 150-175 car circus train around WI and into IL and then back up to Milwaukee for a week long 3 Ring Circus culminating with the Schlitz (later on Miller) Great Circus Parade in downtown Milwaukee -usually led by Ernest Borgine and his wife. The parade would bring up the legendary Merle Evans -who led the Ringling Bros Circus Band for 50 years and never missed a performance. Absolute dynamo of a guy even in his 90’s.

He always stopped by my band on his way up to Milwaukee from his home in Florida and would conduct a summer circus concert with us. Because of him I got to play on top of a circus wagon in a circus band in the parades. What a blast. The parade had like 100 - 150 vintage elaborate circus wagons with all kinds of exotic animals including back in the 1960’s tigers, lions and a bear being walked along the parade route with dog leashes, a hippo walking along by himself, a guy riding a buffalo, camels. giraffes, elephants etc (you’d never be able to do that today). Incredible the years of a guy who single handed controlled the leads for a 40 horse hitch pulling a huge circus wagon with a 40 piece band on it. Seeing them coming down the steep incline of Wisconsin Ave and making a hard (90 degree) right - with one guy - still blows me away. He was a legend and from Iowa.

Here’s a link to Windjammers. I never joined - largely because my director was so heavily involved and would have bugged me nonstop to join him to go to all the conventions - which I never had time for - but now that I have more time (and he and several of the others from my group that were involved have passed on) - I just might - although I’m not really big on playing in big sections of tubas myself.

https://www.mywju.org

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Ardent new kollij perfeser's 25 minute mini-recital doesn't go as planned. Fortunately, no-one's the wiser.
[/quote]

Theirs generally go pretty well, it's mine that I'm thankful there's no evidence other than a line on my CV
[/quote]
Even if they do go well, how many of the pieces will ever be heard outside of a college recital hall?

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In the 21st century, I just don't see the need for this organization. Much of the content it provides is readily available on the Internet, often times at a higher quality. ITEA struggles with its identity - is it meant for professionals, educators, students, or simply people who play either tuba or euphonium. I'm going to argue it does NOT gear itself to people who simply play those instrument, but oscillates between a focus on student/educators or professionals.

The ITEA conference would be of minor interest to me if it consistently attracted the best performers and teachers in the world, but I feel like it's become more of a vehicle for some professor at Directional State University to check a box towards their tenure or their resume. No interest in those, and no interest in the tuba / euph ensemble from Directional State University unless that perform at such a level as to clearly stand out from their peers. Attracting the best performers and lecturers in the world every two years is difficult because of budgets and scheduling, so that rarely happens.

I've been a member, but have no plans to renew my membership unless there was an ITEA International Conference within an hour or two of me AND there were people presenting / performing I wanted to see. Notice how, aside from their International Conference, I mentioned nothing of value for me in terms of membership.